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Thread: Peaceful protests, vehicle fighting, and kiddos

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    Probably not far enough, not fast enough, and handling goes to shit. The methods they use will depressurize your tires immediately, not slowly.
    Last guy my local PD shot made it from the airport rental lot to just north of my house, about 4 miles, after driving over the spike gate at the entrance. Maybe meth does give you super powers and abilities?

  2. #12
    Site Supporter Ichiban's Avatar
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    Since they have stopped some cars in my area, this has become a lot bigger concern than it used to be.

    Under the right circumstances, I suspect I would stop out of pure instinct and it would take me a second or two to get my mind properly oriented to know that damage to the car is of secondary concern. Definitely got me thinking about a less than lethal solution. As a result I have started carrying a larger (3 oz) can of OC spray in the car. It has a 25' range so I might be able to back people up far enough that I can get moving again. Go slow but never stop until you are well clear of the area and can call the police to report what happened.

  3. #13
    If you donít have one already, get a dash cam. IANAL but Iím confident the use of such and having video evidence from your perspective will go a long way should you wind up in court over an incident based around your occupied vehicle. If you unfortunately wind up in the middle of an impromptu roadblock, donít stop. If assholes start using spikes, caltrops or even window breaching tools (some are apparently using the Resqme tool) then unass the AO using your vehicle and to hell with any of the parties accompanying those engaged in such shenanigans. If youíre going out and about in such an area a good idea would be to have a plentiful supply of spare mags.

    Fighting a mob from inside your average car is not a winning proposition in my book. For me personally if my vehicle gets disabled by a band of these assholes, I get surrounded and my kid is with me I will empty every round I have in to those assholes before allowing them to breach my vehicle and harm a single hair on my sonís head.
    ďItís time for us to unite so we can healĒ - spoken by the people who have been viciously attacking others of differing political alignment for four years. I think they misspelled ďheelĒ.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichiban View Post
    Since they have stopped some cars in my area, this has become a lot bigger concern than it used to be.

    Under the right circumstances, I suspect I would stop out of pure instinct and it would take me a second or two to get my mind properly oriented to know that damage to the car is of secondary concern. Definitely got me thinking about a less than lethal solution. As a result I have started carrying a larger (3 oz) can of OC spray in the car. It has a 25' range so I might be able to back people up far enough that I can get moving again. Go slow but never stop until you are well clear of the area and can call the police to report what happened.
    I'd love to see someone fill their washer reservoir with an irritant solution (like capsicum) and mount the nozzels forward facing.

    Kidding. Sort of...

  5. #15
    Could you put an OC grenade on your car, like on/in the gap between the front hood and windshield? Think I read that somewhere before, though if the rioters are geared up against OC anyways it may be much less effective as opposed to normal protesters.

  6. #16
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    On a serious note, I need to pick up some OC to put in the cars. Any issues with the heat or cold with it being left in the vehicle? I've trained and carried it, but never dedicated a canister to a vehicle.

  7. #17
    happy sharps enabler Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Some people have a switch that they flip when itís violence time. I have a switch that I can flip when itís time to completely ignore lines, lanes, and traffic lawsóto be fair, Iíve had this switch ever since I was a juvenile hooligan riding dirt bikes on city streets at 13 or 14, but still. Iíve put it to good use as a civilized, grown-ass man before.

  8. #18
    I'm gonna take another shot at framing this discussion.

    Early on we had multiple examples of patrol vehicles effectively pushing through large groups of angry protestors. The driving component isn't my biggest concern. I'm more focused on best practices if they manage to disable your vehicle at the initial point of contact or shortly thereafter. These two scenarios have played out multiple times since this all began.

    Scenario 1

    Your vehicle is disabled at the initial point of contact. You're now surrounded by an angry mob attempting entry in your vehicle. Kiddo is strapped in the car seat located in the rear passenger area. Protestors are smashing the windshield and side windows. They're armed with bricks, striking weapons, and possibly have armed members providing security.

    Do you stay in the vehicle and engage threats?
    If you stay in the vehicle, do you remain in front seating area or move to rear seating where the kiddo is located?
    Do you exit the vehicle while engaging threats and make your way to the kiddo?
    If you exit the vehicle, do you grab the entire kiddo carrier or remove the kiddo from the carrier to exfil?

    Scenario 2

    Your vehicle sustained damage at the initial point of contact. You're able to drive away but the vehicle becomes inoperable 2 blocks from the initial point of contact. Protestors are chasing after your vehicle and you have approximately 1 minute before they arrive at your vehicle. Kiddo is strapped in the car seat located in the rear passenger area. Mob is armed with bricks, striking weapons, knives, and possibly guns.

    Do you exit the vehicle and position yourself to engage incoming threats?
    If you exit and position yourself to engage incoming threats, what are you doing with the kiddo?
    Do you exit the vehicle, grab the kiddo and attempt to flee / create distance?
    If you decide to flee, do you grab the entire kiddo carrier or remove the kiddo from the carrier?

    In either scenario having the kiddo complicates things significantly. If you're holding the kiddo or kiddo carrier it's going to impact reloads, clearing malfunctions, shooting a PDW / SBR, etc.

    So far with these incidents gun play has been surprisingly minimal and the mobs have mostly dispersed once shots are fired. Early on the mob's weren't presenting guns but that has changed and the odds of encountering gun play has increased significantly. My gut feeling is these incidents are going to get more violent the longer this stuff drags on.

  9. #19
    Regular guy. Cory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36trap View Post
    I'm gonna take another shot at framing this discussion.

    Early on we had multiple examples of patrol vehicles effectively pushing through large groups of angry protestors. The driving component isn't my biggest concern. I'm more focused on best practices if they manage to disable your vehicle at the initial point of contact or shortly thereafter. These two scenarios have played out multiple times since this all began.

    Scenario 1

    Your vehicle is disabled at the initial point of contact. You're now surrounded by an angry mob attempting entry in your vehicle. Kiddo is strapped in the car seat located in the rear passenger area. Protestors are smashing the windshield and side windows. They're armed with bricks, striking weapons, and possibly have armed members providing security.

    Do you stay in the vehicle and engage threats?
    If you stay in the vehicle, do you remain in front seating area or move to rear seating where the kiddo is located?
    Do you exit the vehicle while engaging threats and make your way to the kiddo?
    If you exit the vehicle, do you grab the entire kiddo carrier or remove the kiddo from the carrier to exfil?

    Scenario 2

    Your vehicle sustained damage at the initial point of contact. You're able to drive away but the vehicle becomes inoperable 2 blocks from the initial point of contact. Protestors are chasing after your vehicle and you have approximately 1 minute before they arrive at your vehicle. Kiddo is strapped in the car seat located in the rear passenger area. Mob is armed with bricks, striking weapons, knives, and possibly guns.

    Do you exit the vehicle and position yourself to engage incoming threats?
    If you exit and position yourself to engage incoming threats, what are you doing with the kiddo?
    Do you exit the vehicle, grab the kiddo and attempt to flee / create distance?
    If you decide to flee, do you grab the entire kiddo carrier or remove the kiddo from the carrier?

    In either scenario having the kiddo complicates things significantly. If you're holding the kiddo or kiddo carrier it's going to impact reloads, clearing malfunctions, shooting a PDW / SBR, etc.

    So far with these incidents gun play has been surprisingly minimal and the mobs have mostly dispersed once shots are fired. Early on the mob's weren't presenting guns but that has changed and the odds of encountering gun play has increased significantly. My gut feeling is these incidents are going to get more violent the longer this stuff drags on.
    You know the answers, and none of us like them.

    1: Shoot every person attempting entry to your vehicle, from within your vehicle. Every single one, until they stop. When the group realizes your car is certain death they should backoff. Get yourself and kiddos (all of whom maybe deaf) out of the area. This may resemble an armed run out of a warzone, ala Mogadishu. The whole damn thing is terrible, risky, and violent. And you could fucking die. Or your kids could. Have ammo.

    2: Shoot every lethal threat. All of them. An unarmed angry mob is a lethal threat. Do what you need to get to safety. People tend to be adverse to literally running into gunfire when everyone in front of them has been shot or killed. Get out of the area if you can, barricade if you must.

    We all know this is what is likely if caught in a not moving vehicle with an angry mob. Nobody likes it, and nobody wants it. It wont be pretty. It will be easy to explain why later but it's heinous and people wont like it even if they understand it, you'll be in court and it could go bad there.

    Put in either scenerio there is zero choice between shooting a lot of people and letting my family be at mob mercy. I hope I have enough ammo nad accuracy to make the people 10ish feet (in scenerio 1) away realize they'll loose, and everyone inside that range who is violent earn the prize they're working toward.
    Last edited by Cory; 08-19-2020 at 06:51 PM.

  10. #20
    Op - Iím sorry there are really no playbook strategies

    Too many variables


    How fast and how far can you run holding a child of any size ?

    How well can you shoot running and hold said kid?

    Do we really believe the folks who stopped your car will hold off their attack while you unbuckle the kids?


    I repeat - allowing a group to stop your car is bad juju and should be avoided court be damned

    Car wreck of any kind is easier to fight after than gun fight.

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