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Thread: Is it finally time for a 5th rule?

  1. #1
    happy sharps enabler Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Aug 2013

    Is it finally time for a 5th rule?

    Something that Mas Ayoob said in a recent podcast was along the lines that some trainers are starting to include an addition to the 4 rules. The "5th rule" is some variation on securing firearms from unauthorized access.

    Mas has cerainly earned a place at the table on this, and can speak for himself.

    What I can say for me, after some thought, is that I am currently in favor of the addition. Up until now, I was in agreement with Col Cooper’s admonition "We need all four; we don’t need another," but the times have changed, and I believe that if the community doesn’t police itself voluntarily, then we will eventually end up being policed by the great unwashed, involuntarily. See Washington State for reference.

    I like the idea of all those signs at ranges and gun stores being updated with "all guns should be secure from unauthorized access"

    Note, I did not say "locked up" or "locked in a safe container when not in use" but "secure from unauthorizwd access."

    That’s it. Such a sentence can encompass everything from safe storage, to retention and OC concerns. It is all but impossible to legislate against every potential; much better that the wider firearms community embrace the idea of keeping their property away from people who’d abuse the tools—with the same attention currently given to "keeping the finger off the trigger," in all it’s iterations and levels of competency. This is something that needs to be injected into the gun culture, and I’d prefer it be enacted by education, consensus, habit and tradition rather than legislative force.

    ”It's important to remember that ALL news media is a consumer product. Just like soda and fast food, they don't have any incentive to make it good for you, just addictive enough for you to keep coming back for more.”

  2. #2
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
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    Dec 2012
    Midwest, USA

    Two rules matter the most.
    Three is functional, hits the priorities, and is within the memory capacity of most adults.
    Four is pushing the limits and is the start of functional redundancy.
    Five starts looking like an instruction sheet.
    Last edited by ST911; 11-12-2018 at 03:59 PM.
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  3. #3
    Member ubervic's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Northern VA
    I like that rule and believe that adding it to the traditional four, as a fifth, is logical and appropriate, as it renders the full spectrum of safe gun handling complete. That is, I argue that it is not enough to define safe gun handling in terms only concerning the owner’s actions while the firearm is in the owner’s hands; equally important is preventing unauthorized handling by others. The reason: a responsible gun owner cannot presume that others know and understand the traditional four rules.
    Last edited by ubervic; 11-12-2018 at 04:57 PM.

  4. #4
    Not having fully thought this through yet, my initial reaction is that I don't like it.

    The four rules are for handling a gun. This proposal relates to owning a gun, and is sort of the polar opposite of what to do when handling a gun (i.e., it's "what to do with the gun when you aren't handling it.")

    I'm not opposed to being responsible with firearm storage. I don't think it needs to be a part of the four rules.

  5. #5
    IS WHAT PLANTS CRAVE BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Mar 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by fly out View Post

    The four rules are for handling a gun.
    I agree with this. The 4 rules (and I actually advocate for 3 rules*) is not an all inclusive list of being a safe gun owner. It doesn't include things like how to store, how to transport, how to dry fire, how to operate a manual safety/decocker, how to deal with hot brass, how to call a cease fire, how to verify nobody is left down range, etc. It's a bare bones set of rules on what to do with a gun in your hand.

    *Dropping the "treat as if loaded..." and variants. It creates a disconnect, particularly among the literal minded, that if you handle it like it's loaded there must also be a proper way to handle it if its unloaded. This leads to two sets of handling, and once they are satisfied it's unloaded they are more likely to slip into the "unloaded" way to handle it, whatever that is. I taught my son to treat a gun like a gun, regardless of loaded/unloaded status. If there's not an "unloaded" way to handle a gun, then it's irrelevant if it's loaded or not and there's no reason to put in the newbie's head that there might be.
    Important rule change regarding political discussion here:

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
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    Dec 2012
    Midwest, USA
    I have come to favor Dustin Salomon's approach to safety. Building Shooters and Mentoring Shooters have been game-changers for me.

    Firearms Safety Rule 1 - Always know where the muzzle is pointed; point it there intentionally.
    Firearms Safety Rule 2 - Never place a finger on the trigger unless intending, or willing, to press it.

    Firearms Safety Recommendation 1 - Check the condition of a weapon each and every time it is handled.
    Firearms Safety Recommendation 2 - Do not place a finger on the trigger, unless the sights are aligned on a target.
    Firearms Safety Recommendation 3 - Be sure of the target and what is in front of and beyond it.
    Last edited by ST911; 11-12-2018 at 06:30 PM.
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  7. #7
    What difference would it really make? It’s pretty hard to get people to utilize enough common sense not to break the current 4 rules.

    Arguing that they need to secure their crap usually gets met with hostile screeching of “MuH sEcOnD aMeNdMeNt!”
    “It’s time for us to unite so we can heal” - spoken by the people who have been viciously attacking others of differing political alignment for four years. I think they misspelled “heel”.

  8. #8
    So if you don't have your firearms securely stored when they're not being carried......

    How can you follow Rule #1.
    -All views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect those of the author's employer-

  9. #9
    Was it Clint Smith who said that Col Cooper should've just stopped after rule 1?

    Ive been in a class where the instructor said the 5th rule was to not attempt to catch a dropped gun, then proceeded to tell us about a young officer who centerpunched herself with her duty gun.

    So maybe 6 rules then?

    I'm sure you see where I'm going with this.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter David S.'s Avatar
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    Sep 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
    Ive been in a class where the instructor said the 5th rule was to not attempt to catch a dropped gun....
    *IF* I were to add another rule, this would be it.

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