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Thread: Peaceful protests, vehicle fighting, and kiddos

  1. #1

    Peaceful protests, vehicle fighting, and kiddos

    As I've watched footage from "peaceful protests" around the country it's clear I have a massive vulnerability when rolling through the metro area, my soon to be one year old child.

    I live in a rural area just outside of Minneapolis / St Paul. Given the happenings of 2020 we don't travel throughout the metro area as often but still need to pick up supplies, go to doctors appointments, meet with friends, etc. Since the George Floyd incident we've had a significant increase in "peaceful protests" and they've made their way to the suburbs. Recently there was a large BLM protest in our nearest suburb and we damn near got caught up in it.

    Clearly avoidance is the best possible scenario but shit happens and that may not be an option. Are there established tactics on fighting from inside the vehicle or abandoning the vehicle that factor in the kiddo variable? Does anyone touch on this in vehicle based classes?

  2. #2
    My pointless 2 cents.

    I will not allow a group to stop my car... Iíd recommend you donít either.

    Peaceful folks donít try and pry open your doors. Weíve seen what happens when vehicle ingress occurs

    Respond accordingly. No one said you have to shoot to act in defense of your life

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    My pointless 2 cents.

    I will not allow a group to stop my car... Iíd recommend you donít either.

    Peaceful folks donít try and pry open your doors. Weíve seen what happens when vehicle ingress occurs

    Respond accordingly. No one said you have to shoot to act in defense of your life
    I don't disagree but it's not that cut and dry.

    Around here if a driver mowed down protestors without getting attacked first it wouldn't end well in the court room. As we've seen multiple times if you slow down protestors attack your vehicle, slash tires, deploy spike strips, or throw caltrops. In several of these incidents drivers ended up abandoning their vehicle a short time later which led to an enraged mob attacking them.

    They've also used barricades a few times triggering collision avoidance systems and potentially airbags if the vehicle were to impact the barricade. In either case the vehicle slows, stops, or becomes disabled giving them time to puncture tires or attempt an extraction.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by 36trap View Post
    I don't disagree but it's not that cut and dry.

    Around here if a driver mowed down protestors without getting attacked first it wouldn't end well in the court room. As we've seen multiple times if you slow down protestors attack your vehicle, slash tires, deploy spike strips, or throw caltrops. In several of these incidents drivers ended up abandoning their vehicle a short time later which led to an enraged mob attacking them.

    They've also used barricades a few times triggering collision avoidance systems and potentially airbags if the vehicle were to impact the barricade. In either case the vehicle slows, stops, or becomes disabled giving them time to puncture tires or attempt an extraction.
    Sounds like youíve got your plan then....

    Personally with my kids inside and angry shitbags outside, court is pretty far from my concern.

  5. #5
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    Just a few quick thoughts learned from driving to (and into) riotous crowds whilst in a professional capacity. Bear in mind this was in marked police vehicles, under color of law, and on duty response. I am not giving legal advice, please consider that a civilian in a different jurisdiction may be viewed much differently.

    Never stop moving. Even if you must dramatically slow, do not stop the vehicle. As soon as you stop, those protesters become barriers in front of you, and it looks much worse on video (and trust me, there will be video) if you accelerate into them. Plus it allows them to mass, which increases the danger. As long as you keep moving, even at a crawl, they are interfering with a motor vehicle in transport. Plus, psychologically it is more difficult for people to remain in front of a moving vehicle than one that is stopped. The same goes for the driver, it is more difficult to drive into people from a stop than it is if you keep some forward motion. A vehicle moving at 3-5 mph (for example) is at very low risk of injuring anyone by impact.

    Do not try to negotiate with them, their minds are made up, yours should be too. Do not roll down your windows and make sure the doors are locked.

    As soon as you are clear, get to a safe area. If you think you did cause injury, call the police and document your version of the story. Some will say play dumb and get a lawyer, but in my experience the bare bones of the facts and a legitimate claim of being in fear of your life will help you get in front of things (pardon the pun). If you can safely record the incident from inside the vehicle that can be beneficial as well.

    As already stated, avoidance is the single best strategy. I would rather drive 50 miles out of my way than into a mob.
    Polite Professional

  6. #6
    Dashcam? Maybe grab a police scanner app for your cell phone, then spend some time learning to understand it--although a lot of information isn't going to necessarily go out on unencrypted channels, you're missing out on the tac channels and whatever gets sent from the CAD to the MDTs. In any case, there are some very good free apps (ad-supported) with volunteer broadcasters, so no cost to try.

    I've been given PD's advice before, and have used it, albeit against just a single wannabe barricade (my vehicle was also 18 tons and 11' high). Dude was very confident until he made contact with the bumper and I didn't touch the brake. There was a brief sort of shoving match, and then he changed his mind.

  7. #7
    Member That Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36trap View Post
    As we've seen multiple times if you slow down protestors attack your vehicle, slash tires, deploy spike strips, or throw caltrops. In several of these incidents drivers ended up abandoning their vehicle a short time later which led to an enraged mob attacking them.
    Just a quick note / reminder on something that a lot of you already know: if you are in immediate, serious danger, losing tire pressure does not mean you have to stop moving. A car can travel surprisingly far on flat tires, and the damage is something you can worry about after you're no longer in danger.

  8. #8
    I was taught that if you have to push/force a barricade, do it slowly, and do it in reverse if possible. The rear of a vehicle can sustain more damage than the front and the vehicle can continue to be drivable. Lots of fragile components in the engine bay that will quickly lead to dead car. Dead car bad. Dead car while surrounded very bad.
    "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master"

  9. #9
    Mr. Shovel Lover Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    Just a quick note / reminder on something that a lot of you already know: if you are in immediate, serious danger, losing tire pressure does not mean you have to stop moving. A car can travel surprisingly far on flat tires, and the damage is something you can worry about after you're no longer in danger.
    Probably not far enough, not fast enough, and handling goes to shit. The methods they use will depressurize your tires immediately, not slowly.
    I just kinda felt like shootin' somebody, Matt, and he was making hisself awful handy.

  10. #10
    You can probably go pretty far at low speeds of 15-20 mph. Or get run flat tires and go further faster

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