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Thread: Front Sight Focus Shift Timing

  1. #21
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gio View Post
    Out of curiosity, what type of sight setup do you have? Front sight width/rear sight width, etc?

    Also, do you shoot one eye closed or both open?
    Both eyes open. I'm lucky in having a farsighted left eye and a nearsighted dominant right eye. So, when I shoot target focus the sights aren't that blurry--more like what people describe as intermediate focus. I've experimented with closing an eye on very long shots. It doesn't help, and takes longer.

    The OEM dimensions on Shadow2 sights are: Rear 0.125" notch, FO front 0.120" wide. I like this combo.

    On long shots, the following have to all be acceptable, and under match pressure--especially after a 25yd sprint--that's not a given:
    1. Sight alignment and aim point
    2. Stable sight picture after transition and split
    3. Trigger press
    4. Knowing your POI at a given distance

    Great discussion! Let's keep this going.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Both eyes open. I'm lucky in having a farsighted left eye and a nearsighted dominant right eye. So, when I shoot target focus the sights aren't that blurry--more like what people describe as intermediate focus. I've experimented with closing an eye on very long shots. It doesn't help, and takes longer.

    The OEM dimensions on Shadow2 sights are: Rear 0.125" notch, FO front 0.120" wide. I like this combo.

    On long shots, the following have to all be acceptable, and under match pressure--especially after a 25yd sprint--that's not a given:
    1. Sight alignment and aim point
    2. Stable sight picture after transition and split
    3. Trigger press
    4. Knowing your POI at a given distance

    Great discussion! Let's keep this going.
    That is about what I use (.125" rear notch with .115" front sight width).

    You probably know the reason I asked, but for the OP and others following, the ratio of front sight width to rear sight width along with your sight radius will definitely impact how accurate you can be with target focus. Imagine if you have a very wide rear notch with a very thin front sight and a long sight radius, you will have a ton of left-right room for the front sight to be within the rear notch and still be visible to you. If you are shooting target focus, you're relying on seeing your front sight peripherally and blurry, which is not going to allow you to get it perfectly aligned like a hard front sight focus. The wider your rear notch and narrower your front sight, the more slop will be possible in your sight alignment while still being able to visibly see the front sight. The tighter you can make the rear notch, the less room for error at the target as long as you can see your high viz sight somewhere in the rear notch. Of course there is a trade off for going too narrow, in that if your grip is slightly off or your index isn't perfect, you won't be able to find the front sight.

  3. #23
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gio View Post
    I front sight focus for a bullseye course because a hard front sight focus really allows you to get perfect centering of the front sight, perfect level of the top of the front sight with the rear, and the gun isn’t moving and the single target isn’t moving. For any action pistol sports, defensive shooting, etc, the sights are never stationary and perfectly aligned anyway. I can get them just as close to aligned at speed with a target focus as I can with a front sight focus on a single target, and I can drive them much faster to the spot I need them to be on the next target by staring at the spot I need them to move to. Some great drills for practicing this are 7 to 25 yd Blake drills and Ben stoeger’s accelerator drill. Try running the drills both ways dozens of times at different distances and see what wins out. For me, I am faster and get the same % of A’s/C’s with target focus as I do with front sight focus at distances out to 25-35 yds. My hits are actually better on the transition shot with target focus because I am less likely to under or over transition compared to a front sight focus.
    I just want to underscore how important this post is.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I just want to underscore how important this post is.
    Agreed. Very helpful to me as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by JSGlock34 View Post
    Back when I was a 'press-out' practitioner, I would use a slightly muzzle high ready position so I could keep the front sight in my field of view, and would transition to the front sight as soon as I started my extension. Using a high-vis/HD style front sight helped with this immensely.

    One advantage of the press out as a training technique (especially at the beginner to intermediate level) is that it doesn't require a highly developed index, as you are correcting the sight alignment throughout the process of extending the pistol. I found it works very well with DA/SA guns in particular (pretty sure it evolved from shooting such pistols), and I've seen Todd Green and Ernest Langdon use this technique at a very high level and speed.

    Nevertheless, I moved from the press out to an index based draw some time ago, though I've yet to crack the code on consistent target focused shooting. Personally, I think a target focused technique requires an exceptionally developed index to execute, and a strong index - in my experience - requires a ton of practice and repetitions to develop. Being familiar with @Gio's dry fire routine (and work ethic)...well, there's a huge amount of work behind that target focused technique.
    There is a gentleman who owns SOB Tactical who teaches what I think you are talking about here. I had never seen or heard of this way of presenting a pistol. Quite foreign and Im having a hard time making sense of it. My understanding is that the presentation is accomplished in two vectors: 1. Front sight to eye box. 2. Front sight to target. Kind of like an up and out presentation.

    Ive always presented my handgun directly out to extension-- closer to a straight line from holster to full extension. Logically this avenue makes more sense to me. A straight line is the shortest distance and therefore theoretically faster. As you say though, one must be much more practiced to consistently put everything in a alignment when taking this approach.

    Im curious, why do you say the press out works very well for DA/SA Pistols and probably evolved from the use of those weapon systems?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireHouse1911 View Post
    Agreed. Very helpful to me as well.



    There is a gentleman who owns SOB Tactical who teaches what I think you are talking about here. I had never seen or heard of this way of presenting a pistol. Quite foreign and Im having a hard time making sense of it. My understanding is that the presentation is accomplished in two vectors: 1. Front sight to eye box. 2. Front sight to target. Kind of like an up and out presentation.

    Ive always presented my handgun directly out to extension-- closer to a straight line from holster to full extension. Logically this avenue makes more sense to me. A straight line is the shortest distance and therefore theoretically faster. As you say though, one must be much more practiced to consistently put everything in a alignment when taking this approach.

    Im curious, why do you say the press out works very well for DA/SA Pistols and probably evolved from the use of those weapon systems?
    Nevermind gentlemen. I found the thread https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....d-or-Bad/page3 that answered my question.

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