Test anxiety is a thing but a single snap shot from a G23 is not enough to determine the OPs issue is solely test anxiety.Originally Posted by Cory
I do agree the OP should seek out competent professional instruction if feasible or otherwise correct his issues before putting in more work. Practice makes...permanent so you want to be careful what you are hardwiring into your system.
On reflection, you're right. A single instance isn't enough. I don't think it's the entirity of the problem.
Practice does make permanent, if the practice is consistently the same grip and trigger press. I'm doubting that's the case, thus my idea of just getting more familiar with shooting in general.
On the whole, you're totally correct about instruction first. I should have stated that better. I consider you far more of an authority than myself on the subject. My ideas of familiarity come from my own experience, which has lead me to middling C class performance. More than adequate for OPs qual, but nowhere near the proficency level we would all like.
@kain, okay, I’m late to this party. @HCM and others have already offered some very good advice.
As the annoying but useful Leatham video points out, most pistol ‘misses’ at close range on large targets are not related to sight alignment or the trigger finger pushing the gun.
A shanked trigger pull can move the point of impact by a few inches at 7 yds. But If you’re missing low, left significantly (shooting the ground), this is almost certainly a pre-ignition push. You are pushing the gun in the opposite direction of recoil, in an attempt to control it as it fires. This is common, and even grandmaster level shooters still fight that instinct. It never goes away entirely.
A good coach is the fastest way to get past this.
I also like a green laser. I’ve helped quite a few shooters through their pre ignition issues with this tool. You can just shoot at a big white target and watch the laser.
As well, I like Hwansik Kim’s Measurement Drill where you fire a shot, but do not return it after it lifts. It helps internalize that guns recoil, and we DO NOT fight recoil with active muscular input. We let the gun recoil, and only then return it to target. It’s possible to do this really fast (eg 0.13s) but it’s always 1. Recoil. 2. Return gun.
Last edited by Clusterfrack; 08-15-2020 at 05:45 PM.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
I’ve seen both with remedial shooters at work but recoil anticipation /pre-ignition push is much more common.
The RA/ PIP shows up when working with them in live fire practice and diagnostics. The ones still denying the have RA/PIP tend to get it worse under stress or on the clock but it is not true test anxiety.
Those appear to be shouting well in the live practice etc the fall apart on the test. They also tend to be putting shots all over the place vs a consistent low / low left /low right (for lefties).
There is an I hers to amount of test anxiety even for good shooters. We consistently see firearms instructor candidates perform 5-10% below their scores in pre FI school work ups. They must pass certain COF on the first day to remain in the school. They have usually waited a few years for the school and it’s a long flight home if they don’t make it.
PM me your location. I might be able to really help and you can trust me.
#RESIST
I am late to the party here, and had some thoughts that run similar to everyone elses...I thought that maybe different wording would help....
But now that I have read the thread in its entirety I have to say that two very knowledgeable people have offered you their time... DO IT! Even if you have to schedule them a month apart for cost effectiveness and travel. A morning or afternoon with either will help immensely. Find out what they like to drink, and where they like to have lunch/dinner.
That said, I have been dubious of the utility of airsoft. For a long, long time. I use airsoft guns for learning the drawstroke from new holsters, and some defensive tactics stuff, like retention. SIRT pistols are more useful, but still limited.
Self training, IME, requires MORE discipline, knowledge, and honest self awareness than teaching others. Some folks, particularly around here, have amazing abilities that they have cultivated themselves. They are not the norm. Most of us stuggled for years with good instruction to get to where self training pays off.
And one thing that was screaming in my head while others were mentioning calling your shot- i.e. knowing where your sights were aligned when the gun discharged: it is a learned skill that you develop by watching your properly aligned front sight lift out of the rear sight during recoil, then come back to poperly aligned as you come out of recoil. This is follow through, one of the classic New Technique fundamentals. As long as your pistol is mechanically shooting to the sights, to quote Kyle DeFoor, (and others) the hole in the target shows you where your sights were aligned when the gun went off.
pat
This exchange gives me concern about the breadth and quality of the firearms training at Mr. Kain's agencies:
There has been lots of good advice offered in this thread, however, the old adage 'drinking from a fire hose' may apply.
One of the sidebar discussions involved the use of dummy rounds, whether to randomly place them, or stagger them so the shooter knows where they are. This is an example of semi-conflicting advice that can confuse the shooter.
In my view a competent instructor takes an overall look at the student and evaluates the progression in which they are going to work on the problems with the shooter. One thing at a time. When I'm actually thinking, I tend to find something the shooter is doing right/acceptably, complement them on that and then go onto the most fundamental thing the student needs to master.
In my view any other methodology gives the average student too much to focus on and frustrates them when they don't progress to their expectations. The fundamental problem with police recruit training is that the range staff generally is spread too thin, and the schedule generally precludes slowing instruction to the needs of the individual student. This may be a primary cause of Mr. Kain's predicament.
Going back to my first point, SASP is a fundamental element of marksmanship, taught in the classroom before the student hits the range. Based on that alone, one has to wonder if the basic fundamentals of grip and trigger manipulation have been adequately reinforced. If not, there isn't a much of a foundation to build on.
As mentioned earlier by HCM, you don't generally go from incompetent to conscious or unconscious competency on your own. And, generally, I think of the internet as an inadequate mentor. Mr. Kain needs to evaluate his commitment to improvement and whether he is willing to invest the time and effort to improve. It isn't going to happen by posting on the internet.
TLDR: take up the offers of one-on-one you've been given.
Good luck.
Last edited by DDTSGM; 08-16-2020 at 12:12 PM.
Lebowski did not receive a PM so Lebowski sent a PM
#RESIST
Lol, lots of info in this thread. I appreciate every post here. I have a few pm(s) at this time. Going to respond to them now.
Thanks!
A lot of you have tried to share useful information on the topic.
Your intentions are laudable.
It has been my experience, though, that very few people can learn what Kain needs via text. Or even explanation in general. It's exceedingly difficult for most people to pick up kinesthetic skills that way.
Once someone has a solid foundation and has some ability to coach themselves, then they are able to learn more because they have the base of experience to draw from. Until that is formed, though, it's mostly just noise.
In the same way it would be "noise" to describe principles of calculus to someone who doesn't know how to work with fractions.
3/15/2016
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