Having a tough time during qualifications

[kain]

A good instructor will sort out your issue in short order. Yes, it'll cost money, but what is the cost of changing jobs? Your solution, I think, is quality instruction, one-on-one instruction.

The pistol-forum search function works well. If you search for a thread discussing recommended instructors in your area, you'll quickly find a qualified someone who can help you to fix your issue.

I work for free actually, but I don't want to give it up either. In fact, I am under ALOT of pressure to qualify. My main paying job is IT work. I work remotely and there is no internet available at my home...not even dialup. I am using FirstNet (LE internet for private use effectively). If I don't qualify, I can't feed my family. Talk about an INCREDIBLE amount of pressure to live under. Strange that this turned out this way. I didn't live in this house when I started. My old house had broadband connectivity. Never intended things to be this way.

[kain]

IMO, you should randomize the order of the rounds, rather than having a pre-set alternation, as now you have no idea if it's a live round or not, so you will have the same amount of anticipation for each trigger pull. When I started, what I would do is load a couple of mags with just two or three rounds, with a random mixture of ball and dummy (primarily dummy), making sure that the magazine weights aren't far enough apart that you can discern which mag is which, and randomly select a magazine to load (I put mine in a box, shook it around, closed my eyes, and then loaded blind). This works fairly well for slower rates of fire; I am very confident that I have zero flinch at this point with slow fire, though it can crop up under rapid fire at times, and there's not much you can do about that for most people, AFAIK, outside of extensive live fire. It also makes it very easy to see if there is in fact an issue with just the first few tries, as you'll see the muzzle dip/pull when you hit a dummy instead of ball.

Valid point. I have gone through this during instruction and I very rarely anticipate the shot. I have had even had a Firearms Instructor from THAT 3 letter agency do a one on one with me to ensure that I am not anticipating the shot. It is very degrading to have a Supervisory Firearms instructor from That agency do a one on one with me and still shoot like crap a the range. I know that the word THAT can mean different things to different people but it was very much THAT agency, lol.

[Duke]

Yes, some days are better than others. What do you consider extreme amounts of dry fire? My hand starts hurting with dry fire sooner than most I'd guess.

I’m an odd man out here. But I don’t really dry fire...at all.

But. I’ve got a shit load of ammo and a private range so, when I want to check my work...I just go shoot.

When I did dry fire A lot - I developed bad habits due to boredom and basically decided working reload manipulations is a better use of “dry”’work for me than a click and subsequent non-clicky trigger Work


Ymmv.

[kain]

This. The odds are good that one of us can help.

Hoping so....you all know I live in VA now. Everything is so far. As a generality, I can get to Fredericksburg in 25 minutes, Charlottesville in 1hr 20 minutes and Quantico in 45 minutes on a good day.

[kain]

The way I've understood it, random ball-and-dummy is a great diagnostic tool for discovering whether the shooter flinches during slow fire, but a set sequence of live-and-dummy is better for drill use where you are attempting to get rid of a known flinch. Probably different schools of thought on this though, and there is no harm in trying both ways and seeing what works best.

Yep, likely/generally past that. Things seemed to have gotten a bit better when using the very last bit of my finger not just the center of the last pad of my finger. Could be due to the deformity of my hand. I have small hands but long fingers. LE instructor put a beavertail due to this. I am not going to mess with that beavertail for a variety of reasons.

[kain]

"Back in the day" before kids and the grind when I was taking hundred of hours of firearms classes a year, I out shot LE Firearm Instructors and other dedicated shooters on dry practice alone, the only rounds I shot were in classes or competitions. Maybe not the best path but don't let ammo prices and lack of range access make you believe you cannot be a great shooter.

I am a chump today but spend more time with a chainsaw than a firearm.

On dry practice alone? Could you expand a bit on this please? Wow.

[kain]

Whereabouts in Virginia? Northern Virginia? Northern Neck? Richmond? Tidewater? Shenandoah Valley? Southwestern Virginia?

About 50 miles North of Richmond. 1 hour and 20 minutes East of Charlottesville. 45 minutes South of Quantico. 25 minutes from Fredericksburg. Sorry to be vague but you get the idea.

[HCM]

Hey everyone.

I am a Reserve Deputy and have been disqualified in the past at the range due to my shooting inabilities. No one had the time to work with me so I turned in my badge and went to a department where much more training was offered.

I received 40 hours of training with my issued Glock 45. I must have gone through 800 rounds during that time.

No matter what, I would always shoot low and left and score in the 60's. The trainers took me to another part of the range to work with me and I finally scored a 90. Qualifications here are 7/15/25 yards and 50 rounds.

Ranges are pretty far away and I am not permitted to use their range unless I am qualifying. Ammo is so expensive now. I can't imagine going to the range and pumping out a 1000 rounds to not improve.

I am right handed, right eye dominant, and shoot low and left. It is so frustrating to get sight picture and sight alignment just to pull that trigger and sometimes shoot the ground. Nothing is more frustrating than taking 30 seconds to pull that trigger and still not have it shoot where I want it to go. It is so frustrating to hear that instructor say "sight picture" "sight alignment" and let them know that is exactly what I did over and over again.

I started dry firing with Mantis x3 and the thing says that I am doing great...scores consistently in the 90's...but take it to the range and all hell still breaks loose.

I also have Glock 19 and Glock 17 Umarex Replicas that I shoot in my backyard range. Again....I am a champ at 7/15/25 yards.

Any pointers here? Qualification is coming again and I don't think they will have as much time to work with me due to cost of ammo these days.

Sometimes I think that not everyone is destined to shoot, just like not everyone is destined to sprint or run long distance.

It would be a shame to have to turn my badge in at this agency too.

I am hoping for open dialogue here. If you suggest it, I have probably already done it. Very frustrating.

I feel like I am at a disadvantage because I started shooting only about 4 years ago and I am surrounded by folks that have been shooting their whole lives.

Thanks for your time.

Based on what you said about your mantis dry fire and airsoft results vs your life fire results it sounds like your issue is pre-ignition push aka recoil anticipation often referred to as a "flinch." It is a mental / neurological response to the unnatural controlled explosions going on in front of your face.

The video below from Chuck Pressburg has the best detailed explanation of how and why this occurs and some potential mitigations.

Some things that can help with this:

Traditionally this issue is addressed with Ball and Dummy drills i.e. mixing dummy rounds at random into magazines of live rounds.
As detailed in Pressburg's "flinchies" video and the previously linked Rob Leatham video - MORE support hand grip.
If you have a smart phone video yourself (or have someone video you) shooting in slow motion video, both dry and live fire
use the mantis X for both dry and live fire and compare results. the mantis data includes your pre and post shot movements.



A usefully supplement to the mitigation strategies Pressburg discusses is The Bump Drill.

[kain]

I’m an odd man out here. But I don’t really dry fire...at all.

But. I’ve got a shit load of ammo and a private range so, when I want to check my work...I just go shoot.

When I did dry fire A lot - I developed bad habits due to boredom and basically decided working reload manipulations is a better use of “dry”’work for me than a click and subsequent non-clicky trigger Work


Ymmv.

This is the way that I am feeling. I *hate* having to rack the slide. Yeah, a tie wrap wedged between the slide can change that but messes with trigger pull. A dry fire mag might be cool but might just turn out to be one of the wrong "toys" as my instructors have called them. These so called toys are expensive, don't always work well together, are hard to tote around, etc.

[kain]

Based on what you said about your mantis dry fire and airsoft results vs your life fire results it sounds like your issue is pre-ignition push aka recoil anticipation often referred to as a "flinch."

The video below from Chuck Pressburg has the best detailed explanation of how and why this occurs and some potential mitigations.

Some things that can help with this:

Traditionally this issue is addressed with Ball and Dummy drills i.e. mixing dummy rounds at random into magazines of live rounds.
As detailed in Pressburg's "flinchies" video and the previously linked Rob Leatham video - MORE support hand grip.
If you have a smart phone video yourself (or have someone video you) shooting in slow motion video, both dry and live fire
use the mantis X for both dry and live fire and compare results. the mantis data includes your pre and post shot movements.

You might have missed one of my most recent posts. Sorry, but there have been so many responses to my initial post here and I am just now getting around to it. Flinch is not the issue in general. I have tried the mixing dummy rounds and don't flinch. Something else here likely.