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Thread: Having a tough time during qualifications

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    There are much more qualified people here to answer your questions, but while we wait for their replies and having struggled with similar issues myself; to me it sounds pretty clear that sight alignment is not the issue. What you are describing sounds like the classic flinch reaction. One of the usual suggestions for correcting it is dry fire, but as you have discovered there is a difficulty in translating what you do dry to live fire. Taking away some of the blast and flash of live rounds can help you translate that good dry trigger press into live fire. One way to do that is to double your hearing protection, wear both plugs and muffs. Shooting a .22 would in my opinion serve as a good "bridge" between dry and live fire, as there is some recoil but much less than with a service caliber firearm so it's easier to get used to it. With your Glock, try alternating live and dummy rounds in the magazine so your every other trigger press is on a live round, and every other on a dummy one. Focus on a clean trigger press. Dry fire at the range can also be more beneficial than just at home - being at the range with your eyes and ears on may make it feel more similar to live fire. And of course you have the opportunity to switch between dry and live according to the results you are getting.

    Unfortunately, if you have been shooting with a flinch for a longer time, it can take some effort to "de-program" it away. Do not get discouraged if you don't get immediate results. Things will get better with time and reps.

    And if one of the folks who actually knows how to shoot gives you conflicting information to what I wrote, just ignore what I said and listen to them. (Except for the bit about how you can overcome this issue if you just keep working on it. That part is definitely true.)
    I will incorporate some of this stuff. I am going to start wearing hearing protection when using my airsoft blowback replica. I agree on the .22...just finding a place to shoot without driving a million miles (I hate driving so everything feels like a million miles to me lol) or getting that feeling that I imposing on others is an issue.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post
    Where are you located, if you don't mind sharing? Some really good folks on the local level can do a one on one lesson. Correcting yourself can be difficult as you cannot see subtle movements and positioning in your grip, etc.
    I am in Virginia. I have had "training" here. It feels like everything here is so rush rush and just take your money. I had one of my LE trainers record a video of me on his phone. We played in back in slow motion and saw nothing.

  3. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    northern Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by kain View Post
    I am in Virginia. I have had "training" here. It feels like everything here is so rush rush and just take your money. I had one of my LE trainers record a video of me on his phone. We played in back in slow motion and saw nothing.
    Whereabouts in Virginia? Northern Virginia? Northern Neck? Richmond? Tidewater? Shenandoah Valley? Southwestern Virginia?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkbite View Post
    To add to what has already been posted:

    As a former LEO, my experience is most PD firearms instructors are not. They may be great shots and, hence, that's how they got the job, but can't effectively teach. You need a PROFESSIONAL instructor to work with you one on one.

    Allow me to armchair quarterback your issues, if I may: Being right handed and right eye dominant, low left misses are the classic flinch pattern. This is a combination of pre-ignition push ( the low) and jerking the trigger (left). Why does this happen when the sights are peachy before the shot?? At the core of it, humans are afraid of loud noises. When something loud happens unexpectedly, our natural reaction is to raise our hands to head level and duck. When we shoot we are voluntarily causing an explosion close to our face, and on the primal level it scares us. Because of this, the natural instinct is to get it over with quickly, so we push the explosion away from ourselves (the push) and Quickly fire the shot while jerking the trigger (the left). I guarantee you that your grip is incorrect as well. Don't feel bad about this, as I shot fairly well for 36 years with a wrong grip(I have my Academy Top Gun trophy to prove that). Seeking out other instruction, I realized this, and spent a month of dry work re-programming myself. Only shooting for 4 years is not detrimental to you as the techniques have been much improved over the 42 years I've been shooting.

    I had a student years ago that was literally hitting the ground in front of the target at 7 yards, and I was able to "fix" her in 30 rounds.
    Seek out a REAL instructor, and I bet you Dollars to Donuts, He or She can have you truly sorted out in short order !

    Also, once fixed, continue training with a professional courses. Add to your training resume. it is the best money you can spend to reinforce good habits and build upon previously developed skills. Hell, it's just the best money you can spend period! Good Luck, and Good Training!
    Interesting on the human nature part. My folks were anti-gun. Not only do I likely do everything mentioned, but Bobby Bouche's mama's face flashes by every time I pull that trigger.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Half Moon View Post
    Most likely a trigger control or grip issue though it could be a flinch too. Glocks are prone to this issue for some folks too. There's a lot of knowledgeable folks here I'm sure will chime in but in the meantime here's a site search for 'low and left':

    https://pistol-forum.com/google.php?...3D12320874&ss=
    Will check these out. I concur that it is/was a trigger control issue. I broke my hand when younger overseas. My hand has a funny shape to it. No instructor has ever given it a second thought though.....probably because that scenario is not that common and they are taken back by it.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    The issue is in your head.

    Just put the gun up and shoot - like in your back yard.

    You’ve already shown you are physically able to do this. If dry fire shows youre good, then It’s all mental now.

    To that point extreme amounts of dry fire gives me more bad habits than good. I known I’m an outlier there

    Movey trigger....no movey gun.
    Yes, some days are better than others. What do you consider extreme amounts of dry fire? My hand starts hurting with dry fire sooner than most I'd guess.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnO View Post
    I was going to look for and post the video above. It's very good, pay attention.

    A boat load of info follows in video format. Take some time and watch the videos. As you gain experience behind the gun more and more within the videos will resonate and you will have some Ah-ha moments. You will benefit from watching them multiple times especially as you progress.

    Pay attention to Mike Pannone talking about anticipation and timing.










    I'll check out the additional links. So many aha moments and then just the same.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by vcdgrips View Post
    In addition to all that has been stated, especially getting quality 1 on 1 instruction.

    Make sure your vision is up to snuff re current vision Rx.

    Use ear plugs under a set of ear muffs which may help report/flinch/perceived over pressure etc.

    Strive to use all available time at each shooting position. Tom Givens first told me that many shoot too slow up close not earning points at all and shooting too fast at distance dropping points.

    I fully concur with Duke that a lot of this is in your head.
    I concur.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by trailrunner View Post
    FWIW, shooting low and left with Glocks is not at all uncommon. Many years ago, when I was a new shooter, I was convinced that the sights on my Gen 2 Glock 17 needed adjusting. The range I shoot at is connected to a store, so I let one of the experienced guys in the shop shoot my gun. He put five holes on the target where he was aiming, shrugged, then handed my gun back to me.
    I have had these experiences too.....with the Glock 23 I was issued with Department 1 and Department 2 Glock 45. However, I noticed that any instructor would initially shoot poorly with my gun for the first few rounds but after a few tries knew how to correct it by moving up and to the right or whatever they did. I couldn't help but notice that.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by farscott View Post
    I work on Glock trigger control with an Advantage Arms .22 LR conversion kit. It even uses Glock sights, so you can match the sight picture of your duty pistol and get the exact grip and trigger. .22 LR is still inexpensive and available.
    This is interesting. I might try this out.

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