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Thread: Odd Speer Gold Dot G2 & Hornady Flexlock Question

  1. #11
    Hokey / Ancient JAD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    , accepted MIL and SAE shelf life varies from 3-25+ years depending on the material.
    This isn’t a shelf life application, though; we’re concerned about adhesion and I’d be interested in interface oxidation between the elastomer and the substrate (and intermediary contaminants).

    Worst case is that the plug falls out in whole or in part and fucks up how your gun runs. That’s unlovable.
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  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan1980 View Post
    @the Schwartz thanks.

    You hit on the EXACT thought I had when asking. Long term properties that is.

    I'm skeptical too and thinking of the target market for these rounds it's not unreasonable to think that LE agencies would go through their inventory and be reordering at least somewhat regularly. I think I'll also stay with what we know works. Ammo properly stored will last probably 100 years, I won't but my daughter will still be protected.
    Glad that I could help you out with the thought process, Spartan1980.

    As noted above some of the more probable polymer candidates (silicone/(poly-)urethane hybrids) used in filling the expansion cavities of these 'new & improved' JHPs (can we still say that the 'H' in 'JHP' really stands for 'hollow' in these polymer-filled designs?) designs have very brief maximum life expectancies (~3 — 5 years) under the best of conditions. I am not sure that it is wise to ASSume that they'll fulfill that brief expectation given the widely variable nature of what EDC ammo tends to see. I s'pose that what I am saying is that if I have to go to extraordinary lengths to shelter my EDC ammunition to ensure that it's longevity—and functionality—will be preserved what's the point when we have already time-proven designs like the HST, Ranger/PDX1, original Gold Dot, and several others that work just fine without all of the fuss & muss.

    I know that there are several threads relating to the optimal storage ammunition in several places here on P-F; here are a few threads that seem to offer a wide variety of insight on the topic of storage, preservation, and longevity:

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....2-Ammo-Storage

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....Ammunition-Age

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....8-Ammo-Storage

    Personally, I prefer storing ammo in .50-caliber ammo cans in their original packaging when/where possible in dry, temperature-controlled (typical household) environments. Just make sure that the seals are in good condition. Not exactly an original idea, but a best practice nonetheless.
    ''Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity.'' ―Albert Einstein

    Full disclosure per the Pistol-Forum CoC: I am the author of Quantitative Ammunition Selection.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD View Post
    This isn’t a shelf life application, though; we’re concerned about adhesion and I’d be interested in interface oxidation between the elastomer and the substrate (and intermediary contaminants).

    Worst case is that the plug falls out in whole or in part and fucks up how your gun runs. That’s unlovable.
    My main concern is dragging on the front of the magazine body as the stack rises.

    (I was tasked with procuring some ammo for my agency when Hornady Critical Duty was brand new. The 1st generation of .40 S&W had feed issues, and we were able to trade up for the 2nd generation iteration with a more rounded ogive.)
    "It's surprising how often you start wondering just how featureless a desert some people's inner landscapes must be."
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  4. #14
    Vending Machine Operator
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    Most of my carry ammo is conventional JHP, I recently grabbed 300 rounds of G2, about 150 rounds of Critical Duty, and about 200 rounds of Critical Defense in .40 S&W, 9mm, and .380, respectively.

    I admit the "breakdown of the polymer" angle is not one I had considered. While it's not a huge concern, I did enjoy when a colleague at my prior job gave me about 400 rounds of 180-grain Gold Dot and Hydra-Shok he'd had sitting in his garage since the early 2000s, and it was all in perfect shape. The basically indefinite shelf life of traditional JHPs is a big reason to buy 1000+ round lots for cheap, and when rounds like Gold Dot, HST, and Ranger-T have such stellar performance already, I'm not keen to add a disadvantage.

    I'm not really worried about it, it's only 750 rounds of the 6K+ I have stored, but I admit the next time I buy a 500-1000 round lot it'll be something I ponder. I shoot FMJ plenty but my JHPs do tend to sit indefinitely after function is confirmed.
    State Government Attorney | Beretta, Glock, CZ & S&W Fan

  5. #15
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    Saw this on the MAC IG .. apparently the polymers used in S&W 3rd Gen baseplates are breaking down and failing so often there are now metal replacements available via aftermarket.

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  6. #16
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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    I recently got 1k pulled speer g2 bullets. Probably 90% of them don't have a plug or it's been smeared around the outside.

    Not a big deal for my purpose but man I'd be pissed if that happened to my carry ammo.

  7. #17
    I have maybe half a dozen boxes of .40 Critical Defense that's probably at least 5 years old so I'm curious about the degradation of the filler material, although all the mags in my USP go bag are loaded with Gold Dot. If the polymer is just there to keep the hollow point from getting clogged, how would the bullet function without the filler? Would it just be a run of the mill 165 grain hollow point? Or is just expensive range fodder at this point?

  8. #18
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 03RN View Post
    I recently got 1k pulled speer g2 bullets. Probably 90% of them don't have a plug or it's been smeared around the outside.

    Not a big deal for my purpose but man I'd be pissed if that happened to my carry ammo.
    What were the circumstances concerning the storage of these pulled bullets, and how they were pulled?

    My agency uses Speer Gold Dot G2 in all climes and places. I've carried Speer Gold Dot on every continent except Australia, to include places where our temperature gauge pegged at 120* and couldn't read higher. We store this stuff in bulk at work, in go-bags with filled mags, and I've had about a thousand rounds stored at home since 2016 or so and I've yet to hear of/witness any plugs falling out at all, and especially being "smeared"...for anyone who's never handled Speer Gold Dot G2, the plug isn't even a smearable consistency.

    On the very first batch they made plugs oversized and would stand proud from the cavity, and that resulted in some of the excess layer at the top of the plug getting chewed up if you were to load/download mags. We were advised that it wouldn't impact performance of the bullet as long as the rest of the plug was still in tact, and all subsequent batches rectified the plug standing proud. But, still, nothing approaching what you're describing.

    @HCM, have you heard/seen anything like this? @TC215, you guys use G2 as well, right?
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  9. #19
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    What were the circumstances concerning the storage of these pulled bullets, and how they were pulled?

    My agency uses Speer Gold Dot G2 in all climes and places. I've carried Speer Gold Dot on every continent except Australia, to include places where our temperature gauge pegged at 120* and couldn't read higher. We store this stuff in bulk at work, in go-bags with filled mags, and I've had about a thousand rounds stored at home since 2016 or so and I've yet to hear of/witness any plugs falling out at all, and especially being "smeared"...for anyone who's never handled Speer Gold Dot G2, the plug isn't even a smearable consistency.

    On the very first batch they made plugs oversized and would stand proud from the cavity, and that resulted in some of the excess layer at the top of the plug getting chewed up if you were to load/download mags. We were advised that it wouldn't impact performance of the bullet as long as the rest of the plug was still in tact, and all subsequent batches rectified the plug standing proud. But, still, nothing approaching what you're describing.

    @HCM, have you heard/seen anything like this? @TC215, you guys use G2 as well, right?
    I have no idea. I got them from American reloading. These are all the black coated ones as well.

  10. #20
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 03RN View Post
    I have no idea. I got them from American reloading. These are all the black coated ones as well.
    Black coated Speer Gold Dot G2?

    Whatever you bought, I'm confident it was not Speer Gold Dot G2.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

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