I just got one in the mail yesterday, so I have all the packaging. I'll check when I get home if I remember.Originally Posted by Yung
I just got one in the mail yesterday, so I have all the packaging. I'll check when I get home if I remember.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
Thank you.
Exactly. Companies decide to 'go in a different direction' and 'contracts aren't renewed.' Hence, they move around to the highest bidder. Often the previous bidder doesn't bid.
You are correct. Unlike the Youtuber, real money is changing hands when an internet-famous trainer starts shilling. All the more reason to be skeptical.
He's not repping NCStar or airsoft gear. That's true.
And yet there's no shortage of people being paid to make you think there's a world of difference between Ford and Chevy.
When I say "HE", I might as well be referring to other trainers that do the same thing. But it's often repeated here "Yeti says they are good" anytime someone mentions Holosun. I'm sure many aren't aware that these trainers are often on the payroll of companies, and they often aren't upfront about it. Sometimes they are, but most people won't bother to go into the trainer's website and dig around. But it usually doesn't matter as they usually they aren't forthcoming.
One of the advantages of being with a .gov entity large enough to do it's own testing is you can eliminate a lot of that. There's some T&E going on here now and Holoson is projected to be approved. Projected to be isn't the same as "is" of course, but between what I've read here and that info it was enough for me to throw the dice.
Without getting into the "just as good as" and "battle ready" arguments, some cheap rifle optics did surprisingly well. I've had a patrol rifle for maybe just over 10 years (don't recall exactly when I first qualified) and we started with just irons. A few years later optics started getting approved. A Bushnell was the cheapest option that survived T&E and then did good work on real patrol rifles. TRS-25, maybe? Something T-25. I sprung for an EoTech, a much more expensive option, and had one of the ones with thermal drift...so there's that. I went to Aimpoint after that, but I do not believe "you get what you pay for" is always true unless you are counting the cost of the name.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
We're not talking about other people.
Like the late Pat Rogers and other active trainers Fisher sees a lot of rounds go downrange in classes with a variety of gear. Having spent a couple years doing full time firearms training I understand the value of that depth. So do firearms, gear and optics companies.
You are implying his positive mention of Holosun is a false statement rather than genuinely based on his positive experiences using them and seeing them in class.
I'm aware of at least one large Fed Gov agency which tested Holosun pistol optics and were very surprised at how well they performed.
Along those lines, Fisher convinced me to pull the pin on a a Khales LPVO, which was the result of a contract evaluation of LPVOs he did for a .GOV org. It simply was the best performing LPVO at the time.
Remember, this is not a hobby for him, it's how he makes a living, everyone has to play some form of politics and self moderation at work including you and me. My experience with him is similar to a lot of industry people I know and respect, if it's good he will endorse it, if its not you will get some form of no comment / read between the lines. So far I haven't seen him steer people wrong.
I've actually taken a class with Fisher.
A couple of observations:
1) Fisher is a paid representative for various companies. He admits this. At the time I took the class, he stated he was not working for Trijicon anymore. He still recommended Trijicons as an option.
2) How that representation ends up in practice is, as an example, he obviously has some sort of deal with Tenicor. To wit, he had most every product they make on hand for students to try during class. His sales pitch was literally, "here's a box with all the latest Tenicor, Jeff's got some cool shit, grab what looks cool and try it out during the day." I'm happy with my Dark Star Gear stuff and so I didn't take him up on that. He did the same with Agency guns (Glocks and P320s). I don't have the budget to play that game so I didn't take him up on that one either. At no point were the products "pushed" on me unless you count the fact that they were present. In my observation, most of the product discussion was student-initiated by what I can only described as fanboys. Think of it kind of like a gun show back in the day, where you'd see a lot of interesting stuff in one place for fondling, and you have an idea of how his brand of marketing works.
3) He does indeed "say Holosun is good." He says the same about ACROs and RMRs, though -- like Holosun -- he has gripes about each optic (auto-adjust after 16hrs on the RMR, not starting with a larger battery on the ACRO, etc.). During class, I found him to be quite candid about the pros/cons of various RDS options. He is of the opinion that Holosun is a legit contender in the duty optics world at this point. That's probably got something to do with round count -- between his personal guns and the loaners, the optics get quite a few miles on them each year. He describes having roughly 50/50 Holosun/Trijicon on his guns at this point, and having sent back many more Trijicons than Holosuns.
4) The fact remains that despite all the bitching about Chinese optics and allegations of IP theft of the emitters that somehow haven't been followed through with doing something about it... the things work. For individuals and, in some cases, in agency testing. I implicitly trust Western QC processes more... but my examples have all worked very well, and I've owned seven Holosun products at this point. As have the examples of many others (I'd hazard a guess and say that civilian sales of the Holosuns likely exceed those of the RMR). All of the accusations of shilling won't change that.
Not quite sure what the Steve Fisher hate is about, he runs in some well informed and "we can buy whatever the hell we want" circles so if he was going to start "shilling" for a inferior product his own peers would probably be calling his bullshit. I have no reason to doubt what he says, reputation means a lot in this industry...
It says "Made in China" prominently under the bar code on the cardboard sleeve around the box. The box itself is just black with a very subdued logo on it. I don't see any markings on the unit itself other than the serial number and brand. A *very* quick perusal of the instruction sheet doesn't mention it.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
I think there are two different issues.
1) what is a person’s opinion, and how informed is that opinion.
2) what relationships does that person have. So when someone is promoting a product, I am interested in what business or other relationships the person has that might influence their endorsement. The existence of a relationship does not necessarily invalidate their endorsement, but I want to know about it so I can consider the relationship as part of my own evaluation.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Thanks again for looking.
I think the easiest thing they could do is to put it on their website somewhere. The first time I realized this issue chapped my ass was going into my first full-time job post-enlistment and buying Matco and Snap-On hand tools only to realize after the fact that some of the stuff that wasn't even part of the Silver Eagle/Blue-Point budget lines were still made in China.
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