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Thread: Grip, trigger control and trigger speed

  1. #21
    IIRC it is a pull with the fingers only, no force of a push comes from either hand if that makes sense. Only the fingers pulling backtowards the palm. I think i remember them warning against any push or pulling with the arm muscles. But i could be wrong!

    Quote Originally Posted by spinmove_ View Post
    He mentions in a grip technique video where he doesn’t exert side to side pressure with his support hand so much as pushes back into the front strap of the grip and add pressure with his fingers. His strong hand obviously is gripping front to back as well. IIRC he then goes to to describe it as a “push/pull” from the standpoint of the support hand pulling and maintaining the guns place in space with his strong hand as a push.

    I’ll have to look around and see if I can find it again. I’m not part of PSTG right now, but I’m pretty sure it’s a video he put up there as well as made it available for purchase separately through vimeo or some other platform.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rca90gsx View Post
    IIRC it is a pull with the fingers only, no force of a push comes from either hand if that makes sense. Only the fingers pulling backtowards the palm. I think i remember them warning against any push or pulling with the arm muscles. But i could be wrong!
    It was the video “Recoil Management Series”. I’ll have to go through and watch it again. The Humble Marksman also has an interesting video on recoil management that he put together using input and references from other top level shooters. That’s an interesting watch as well. It seems those dudes are doing similar things to what GJM is describing. Not crushing the gun, immobilizing joints as much as possible.

  3. #23
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    I am just here for the knowledge bombs. Lots to unpack for this D shooter.

    This thread reminds me why I support pistol-forum as a Site Supporter. Thoughtful nuanced discussions like this on the technical aspects of shooting by respected members, are hugely beneficial to beginners like me.

    I’ll go back to listening now.

  4. #24
    Some of have been push-pulling and locking the wrists for a long, long time now. That has a name... Bieber? Heever? Jeever? Something like that. I can’t remember.


  5. #25
    The way Hwansik is gripping is not really like anything anyone else is doing, and it's definitely not like the Weaver stance. You have both hands on the gun and that's about it for the similarities.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    --if one can learn to manage wrist and arm tension separately from grip force. As well, we need to separately address passive recoil control, and actively returning the gun after recoil.
    This has the little hamster wheels turning. Do you have drills or techniques or exercises to help learn this, or is it all experiential trial and error?

    pat
    Last edited by UNM1136; 08-14-2020 at 09:00 AM.

  7. #27
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    This has the little hamster wheels turning. Do you have drills or techniques or exercises to help learn this, or is it all experiential trial and error?
    High speed video from the side of the gun, while experimenting with what is required for a good grip is helpful. Figuring out what the feeling is when the wrists are properly tense is the next step. That took a while, but now I know what it feels like. Interestingly, fist pushups with a not-so-tight fist seem to help as well.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
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  8. #28
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyesquared View Post
    The way Hwansik is gripping is not really like anything anyone else is doing, and it's definitely not like the Weaver stance. You have both hands on the gun and that's about it for the similarities.
    Typical Hwansik style, his PSTG video on grip outlined more than one way to grip the gun. I liked that he didn't push the front-to-back grip for everyone. It does NOT work for me with any gun I shoot, and I very much prefer a "box" grip.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyesquared View Post
    The way Hwansik is gripping is not really like anything anyone else is doing, and it's definitely not like the Weaver stance. You have both hands on the gun and that's about it for the similarities.
    I'm pretty sure I've mentioned it before on P-F, but during an instructor in-service with Mark Fricke, he asked us - "Show of hands....who here shoots Isocoles? Weaver? Some personally bastardized version of one or the other?"
    "It's surprising how often you start wondering just how featureless a desert some people's inner landscapes must be."
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  10. #30
    I wrote the following in a Facebook group I am a member of:

    I want to offer up some thoughts on handgun recoil control, and my approach to it.

    I see a lot of shooters advocate flaring your elbows, torquing wrists, involving the entire arm, shoulders and chest in order to manage recoil.

    Personally, I manage handgun recoil with my hands, with most control being from the support hand. My firing hand has a firm grip, but not so much that I cannot isolate my trigger finger.

    Too much tension in the firing hand can lead to pushing shots down due to sympathetic recoil anticipation, as well as trigger freeze.

    I'm not sure that the effort required to involve almost the entire upper body produces such drastically different results with a handgun. The gun, with a proper grip, doesn't flip that much, and does not require a lot of movement to get back down on target.

    You should just let the gun do it's thing in recoil, making sure that you maintain your grip throughout the string of fire.

    Keep it simple I guess.
    This comes after trying to analyze my shooting, using drills and tips I picked up from Ben's books and videos. I was way too often over-gripping with my firing hand, and under-gripping with my support hand.
    I was also guilty of extreme post-ignition push, causing follow up shots to land low on target.

    Here is a video of a recent Bill Drill, I shot it in 1,75 seconds with all A's:



    1st shot: 1.02
    2nd: .17
    3rd: .13
    4th: .14
    5th: .14
    6th: .15

    I don't really see the practicality of shooting splits fast as I do in that video, but I am pretty consistent shooting this drill clean in 1,8X from 7.

    I shot three Bill Drills at the end of practice today (no video), and I shot a 1,85 clean, a 1,65 with 1C and a 1,59 with 3C (Classic IPSC with tapered A-zone).

    From a practical shooting perspective, shooting sooner is better than shooting faster. On the last two strings today my draw was sub 0.9 seconds.

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