This is an interesting article from Caleb:
http://gunnuts.net/2012/06/06/super-...draw-your-gun/
I think we could get a conversation going about the advantages and disadvantages of various draw techniques.
This is an interesting article from Caleb:
http://gunnuts.net/2012/06/06/super-...draw-your-gun/
I think we could get a conversation going about the advantages and disadvantages of various draw techniques.
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...class-questionOriginally Posted by Ben Stoeger
I was actually planning on starting on tread on this after reading Caleb's post.
My question is "why not both?" Press out to low prob targets, index to higher prob targets. This assumes that you're willing to put in the time to learn both drawstrokes and put in the time to be able to utilize them both correctly.
Is the "draw to index" a competition only technique? If so, why?
ETA: Based on Caleb's article I drew a distinction between the "draw to index" approach that he described and a "punch out" - maybe I'm on crack but they seemed different
Last edited by JeffJ; 06-06-2012 at 03:37 PM. Reason: saw JV's post
During the '90's, while shooting mostly BHPs I didn't know it was a pressout but for speed I shot extensively where I was on the sights very early and generally broke the first shot BEFORE full extension and the 2nd at full extension and got great hits really fast. But with the decline of my close focus vision and advancing age I've tried in the past few years to return to that and found mostly frustration. The speed to pickup the sight and track it closer to my face just seems gone. So prepping the Glock trigger some but finishing with a punch out seems to describe how I employ the pistol fast now. I'm extremely pleased with the results in time and hits on the FAST and other such drills so I'm not particularly seeking another approach now.
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
The press out is actually a far better technique - it allows you to press the gun out as you draw which in turn gives the the ability to control the angle of the barrel in relation to the target. Mathematically this allows you to have a higher percentage of fast target attainment vs other draws.
Caleb's article answers the question for me:
- The index draw's utility for most people only works for high percentage shots: target is static, shooter is static, target is close, big, and unobstructed. That's 99% of the first shots fired from the holster in IPSC and IDPA.
- Mastering a useful index draw takes time, reps, and ammo; that time and ammo could just as easily be spent on further improving my press-out.
- The index draw puts the gun out in front of the body and below the sight line. That's fine for competition. It's not as good for any time you've got close threats or environmental limitations (like a steering wheel or wall) that prevent moving the gun like that. If you're also pressing the trigger before the gun is aligned between your eyes and the target, you're violating a fundamental safety rule.
I don't doubt for a moment that the index draw, practiced enough, can result in a faster first shot out of the gun. Based on all the "index draw shooters" I've seen try the F.A.S.T. in classes and at similar events, I'm convinced that it doesn't translate into consistent on-demand ability to make tough shots under stress. The number of people who'll actually put serious time and effort into both techniques is small. The number who'll call upon the best technique for a given target at a given instant during a dynamic event is even smaller.
The press out, like the fundamentals it incorporates such as sight alignment and trigger manipulation, can be as precise as necessary or as sloppy as allowable. But it's sort of like the aimed vs. point shooting debate, where aimed fire tends to improve one's point shooting while the opposite is not the case. Practicing a good press out means I can call upon it when needed and rush it when it's not. Someone whose practice is all about indexing an A-zone isn't going to "rise to the challenge" when life forces him to hit a small, moving target in low light.
That is absolutely false. It is generally to a shooter’s advantage in competition to get moving while drawing if the scenario allows it. Also, there are many draws onto more difficult targets at competitive events. IPSC is not really as static as many people believe it is.
@ToddG - are there good studies on which is more likely to be important in a self defense situation - the extra tenths of a second on a higher percentage target (ie, a torso hit at 15 yards) or being able to hit a lower percentage shot (target behind cover/hostage situation) from the holster at speed? There's obviously a tradeoff being made, and I'm curious to see the data that raises one above the other.
I will accept if you just say it is a philosophical difference - in that being able to do both reliably (even if one is slower) is better than not being able to reliably hit the hard target at all. But I am curious what the numbers we have supports.
And how many of those result in sub-second hits from the holster? That's the whole point: the index draw has a strength, and as soon as one steps away from its strength people either (a) stop using it or (b) miss.
I think you misunderstood my post. I was not advocating an “index” draw or any other sort of draw. I am just clearing up misconceptions that many shooters hold about the sport I compete in.
I can speak to your question (rhetorical or not) about draws in competition. From what I observe, the number of shooters that can draw and hit a target in 1 second in competition is pretty low. You simply do not often see shooters break 1 second that often in a match regardless of factors like target distance, if the shooter starts moving, etc. However, when people actually fire a shot at a competitive event, it pays dividends to hit the target. Accuracy tends to be pretty good among the better shooters in the sport.
