I usually only buy HST or Ranger T, I bought some Hornady American Gunner a long time ago and had some left over. Yes, I'm curious is the extra 150-200 ft-lbs of energy makes a difference. I like to know the truth behind things and see what's what. If they're more effective I might consider buying them. I'm guessing they will have a bigger wound cavity. I'll let you know what I find.
Here, let me save you the time and send you a link to Lucky Gunner's comprehensive ballistic testing of .40 S&W roundsOriginally Posted by Matt_J
If you're looking for people to go "oh wow, an 88gr bullet going 1400 fps how cool" this ain't the place. Most of the people here have a pretty good understanding of how handgun terminal ballistics work, which is why we're literally all going to tell you to carry Gold Dots or HST.
Thanks, that's a very well-presented test! I like the consistency of the 165gr Winchester Ranger Bonded. Yeah I didn't have any faith in the 88gr but I thought maybe someone else knew more about it.
They penetrate fine. You are probably thinking of the 'Extreme Shock' and 'Liberty' type bullets, which were compressed metal powder with some special binder if I recall correctly. Those just sort of exploded upon impact.
The poly/copper bullets had an issue of shearing off in the feed ramp. This was apparently caused by over-crimping at the factory, and according to the new company making them (the old company folded after Ruger discontinued their relationship) has been fixed. Regardless of whether or not they fixed their issue, it's a weak point in the design. If a bullet shears off while feeding you are out of the fight, and it doesn't matter what the bullet might do to the target, you are stuck with a hard down gun.
The other issue with them is they have a modified fluted design, similar in some ways to the Lehigh design but with an angle to the flutes, causing it to 'rotate upon impact which increases the hydraulic wounding force blah blah blah'. A valid criticism of the fluted bullet design is that it is simply designed to take advantage of the characteristics of ballistic gelatin to look impressive in tests. This is definitely the case with the ARX 'rotating force' thing in my opinion. I don't see any advantage over a simple machined copper bullet like the Lehigh design. I see some disadvantages, like breaking up upon bone contact and not passing through barriers.
Whether the solid copper straight fluted bullets are worth anything won't be solved unless a major law enforcement organization adopts them and has enough shootings with them to provide data over the designs on the street right now. Since that won't be happening for a number of reasons there really is no point in speculating.
It's very hard to find gel testing of Underwood JHPs. I found a video of Buffalo Bore 155gr JHP and the wound cavity was huge, but unfortunately it was going so fast it stripped the pedals off and penetrated 22". He made it very clear you need to have a full-supported chamber to shoot these, he shot from a Springfield XD. I checked my USP and it's fully supported.
Most of the videos are on the Extreme Penetrators, or Carrie Underwood videos. Not a whole lot of testing on the JHPs though, and there are different kinds of JHPs they make too, the XTP is the one I'm interested in.
Have you seen a bone strike?
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
Read down further in the post you quoted.
I see where you alluded to it breaking up on bone contact. My question is have you seen a bone strike?
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
Oh okay so they're exactly as effective as an FMJ which is 50% the cost. Neat.
Reply With Quote