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Thread: Pistols (and pistol mounted optics) I saw this week

  1. #1
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Pistols (and pistol mounted optics) I saw this week

    Another installment of The Guns (& Optics) I Saw This Week:

    Ten students, with varying degrees of PMO experience, took Gunsite’s inaugural 250 Defensive Pistol-PMO class this past week. In addition to square range work, there are indoor & outdoor simulator runs as well. Temps were in the high 90s up to 115 at about 4800’ ASL.

    1) Glock 19 / Trij SRO
    2) M&P 2.0 9mm 4.25” / Trij 1.0moa RMR
    3) Glock 19 / Trij SRO
    4) Glock 19 / Trij SRO
    5) M&P 1.0 5” CORE / Trij RMR (Loaned)
    6) Sig p228 Legion 9mm / Sig Romeo
    7) Glock 19 / Unity Tactical / Leupold DPP Dot (Loaned) with a Tau SCD
    8) Glock 17 / Leupold DPP Triangle (Loaned)
    9) Atlas Athena 2011ish 9mm / Trij SRO
    10) Shadow Systems 9mm / Holosun

    The round count was just about 980-1000 rounds of regular ammunition, and close to all of the 50 rounds of frangible ammunition required.

    No pistols had to make a trip to the on-site gunsmith. No optics died.

    What broke?
    The after-market suppressor height front on a Glock19/Unity Tactical Atom mount departed the slide on TD4. Fortunately, it’s so big we found it on the ground, and the screw was still inside the assembled slide. The sight had been installed with thread locker on it, but it has been a few years.
    Another student was using a Glock19/ C&H V4 plate / Trij SRO combination. At the end of TD3, he noticed one of the screws for the C&H plate had sheared. He had the MOS plate and screws with him. He changed out the plate, re-zeroed at the start of TD4, and continued without issue.

    I saw failures to feed, failures to fire during the class, but not enough to stand out with any one pistol. Ammunition availability, as well as QA/QC is a prominent issue right now as I saw several failures to fire with solid primer strikes.

    The Atlas Athena was set-up much more for competition as opposed to defensive use. There seemed to be a struggle with the differences between previous experience and the manipulations, manual of arms – if you will – that we teach.

    I was curious about how the Shadow Systems MR918 would perform. It ran just fine; I’d be interested in getting some time in on one. (Caveat: I have a student of mine who works for that company now.) I’m looking forward to getting my hands on a Holosun as well.

    The Sig & Sig combo had sort of a rough start. The holster was interfering with the PMO controls every time he holstered or drew the pistol. Coarse sandpaper took care of that.

    No battery issues were noted during the week; however, change them regularly.

    Weather conditions did not require RainX or CatCrap, but the lenses were accumulating a fair amount of crud & junk over the week. I could see that while working with the students.

    Note: While this was far from the first time students had PMO equipped guns in Gunsite classes, it was the first run of a course specific to them with material focused on the combination.

    This is a continuation of the idea behind this thread:
    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....what-stood-out

    There will be another PMO update towards the end of August.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    Another student was using a Glock19/ C&H V4 plate / Trij SRO combination. At the end of TD3, he noticed one of the screws for the C&H plate had sheared. He had the MOS plate and screws with him. He changed out the plate, re-zeroed at the start of TD4, and continued without issue.
    Just to be clear it was the screws that broke and he had to change the plate because the the only screws he had that were spare would only fit the MOS plate?

    Or did the screw posts themselves break?

  3. #3
    Team Garrote '23 backtrail540's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrozowjj View Post
    Just to be clear it was the screws that broke and he had to change the plate because the the only screws he had that were spare would only fit the MOS plate?

    Or did the screw posts themselves break?
    From the picture above, it looks as if the screw sheared off in the t post so he swapped in a new screw and t post. I believe that is by design and the idea behind the v4. T posts are easy to change and better than buying a whole new plate.

    Edit - i need to read more carefully. I saw he said mos plate. My apologies
    "...we suffer more in imagination than in reality." Seneca, probably.

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    Thanks Erick!

    pat

  5. #5
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post

    What broke?
    ...
    Another student was using a Glock19/ C&H V4 plate / Trij SRO combination. At the end of TD3, he noticed one of the screws for the C&H plate had sheared. He had the MOS plate and screws with him. He changed out the plate, re-zeroed at the start of TD4, and continued without issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by mrozowjj View Post
    Just to be clear it was the screws that broke and he had to change the plate because the the only screws he had that were spare would only fit the MOS plate?

    Or did the screw posts themselves break?
    Should have been more descriptive, I thought the photo would help.

    Re the C&H V4 plate, one of the screws used to attach the optic to the plate sheared in two.

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Thanks Erick!

    pat
    You're welcome, sir!

  6. #6
    Site Supporter MGW's Avatar
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    I like these summaries.

    I assume you use a standard set of tests in all classes. It would probably be tedious and or impossible but it would be interesting to look at average scores on a couple of those tests over time comparing MRDS shooters to iron sighted shooters.
    “If you know the way broadly you will see it in everything." - Miyamoto Musashi

  7. #7
    I would like to thank Erick Gelhaus for his detailed report. All of this is very useful as the technology advances.
    Regarding the screw, I believe it’s been mentioned several times that the plate is part of the system to attend to. Ideally, a direct mill would be best for one particular sight, but the MOS has flexibility.
    In my limited experience, I had a plate loosen with an RMR2 on a G45-it happens. So, it’s a maintenance item to be attended to. I’ve had good luck with both the MOS and C&H plate. The one incident of plate loosening was lack of thread locker on my part. Plenty of blue Loctite or “Vibratite” for me since!
    I try to check the whole system weekly.
    Thanks again for reporting

  8. #8
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGW View Post
    I like these summaries.

    I assume you use a standard set of tests in all classes. It would probably be tedious and or impossible but it would be interesting to look at average scores on a couple of those tests over time comparing MRDS shooters to iron sighted shooters.
    Interesting suggestion. I'm teaching another 250 this week, though it's not PMO centric. I'll try to remember to compare scores. However, a better metric might be a standard intermediate class to the PMO intermediate class I'm teaching next month.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    Should have been more descriptive, I thought the photo would help.

    Re the C&H V4 plate, one of the screws used to attach the optic to the plate sheared in two.



    You're welcome, sir!
    No worries. I was reading this on my phone and didn't see the picture. Would have been more clear if I had.

    Seems like screws should be almost considered single use for any slide mounted optic. Really makes the ACRO and Holosun 509t crossbar design seem preferable on a slide.

  10. #10
    Hammertime
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    Love these threads. Please keep posting them.

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