Pistols (and pistol mounted optics) I saw this week

[Archer1440]

Having had the privilege of looking through your ACRO in the class, I am confident that it is the way forward, especially as battery life improvements are made. Inevitably, sighting solutions like these will become the “new normal” just as they have been on long arms for years now.

Erick is right about HK 20-round mags for the P30/VP9 platform- they don’t like being dropped (for required speed reloads during exercises) with rounds in there, lest they look exactly like an infamous HK magazine ad of decades past. I quite literally had rounds completely turn around in the mag lips when subjected to that abuse.

I will also point out that the SRO multiple dot issue at certain sun angles became much less of an issue after about the 200th of Erick’s ceaseless attempts to get me to learn a proper index over the course of the week. I finally improved, despite my astonishingly thick skull and goldfish memory, solely due to his and the other instructors extraordinary patience with my incompetence.

Learning occurred!!

[karmapolice]

By way of perspective, there are a bunch of Carry Optics shooters I know shooting 3,000 rounds or more a month through their dots. I have 50,000 rounds through my small number of SRO optics, and have not had to return a single one to Trijicon. There are thousands of CO shooters putting many rounds thru the SRO each month. An issue with getting great data on the Acro, is since it is not an optic used by many competitors, the Aimpoint dots are just not getting the round counts put on the SRO and other competition optics. I have three Acro dots now, and would be surprised if I have 3,000 rounds thru the three combined.

Yep, I have put 30k + rounds through ACROs (majority on one) and probably 40k through RMRs (30k on one). RMR definitely has some advantages. I’ve done battery swaps, nothing died, I replaced screws on one and not the other. I just used good plates and screws. Majority all have been on MOS Glock guns. I did have a milled 19 with RMR back in 15-16. My only non MOS gun is. Long Beach Operator with an RMR from the factory (RSR exclusive). I like RMR, don’t mind the acro. I’m not full on anti holosun but man it’s hard for me to excited about them. I don’t like everything trijicon either. RM06 3.25 is probably the quintessential pistol dot to me still, RM09 I ain’t mad at but I’ve only got like 300 rounds of .45 through one so far.

[HCM]

If @Erick doesn't mind I'm going to piggyback here till I can write a real AAR. I just finished my 3rd RDS class with Modern Samurai Project (@Asiajedi). Scott's instruction and student diagnostics were excellent as always but just wanted to provide some gear observations:

There were 20ish shooters (we lost a couple on day 2) with a mix of RMRs, SROs, Holosuns and SIG optics. It's a 2 day course with an official round count of 1,000, I've usually shot 800-ish "mas or menos.

There were no direct optics failures in this class or the two prior classes. Two shooters in this class had optics come loose due to mounting issues: a factory optics ready CZ P-10 with an SRO and a 5' Ported PC S&W M&P Core 9mm with a Holosun. The S&W issue was with the CORE mount but the shooter (a USPSA competitor and high volume shooter) said he has had the same issue with the C&H plate on his identical back up gun.

This class I ran a SIG P320 Carry with a factory mounted Romeo1 PRO instead of my usual Glock for familiarization purposes since 320s and the Romeo1 PRO are issued / authorized equipment at work. I had no mechanical issues with the gun or optic. I did however experience two shooter / grip induced stoppages when the base of my thumb inadvertently activated the slide lock in mid string / with rounds in the mag. These were the 5th and 6th such issues I've experienced with the 320 X grip.

There was one other shooter running a 320/M17 Bravo with an RMR on an adaptor plate and one shooter who ran the whole course with a P365XL with a factory mounted Romeo Zero. No issues.

There were several (5-6?) shooters running 2011's, one Triarc, the rest recent STI/Stacattos, one XC model and the rest P Duos. All were running RMRs or SROs. One of the DUO shooters had both a P DUO and a C DUO (the single stack) and switched between the two. One thing I noticed was a couple of the 2011 shooters had their grip safeties taped or rubber banded down. This is heresy because everybody knows in Texas you may only deactivate your grip safety with a piece of raw hide.... Scott Jedlinski also ran an XC the first day - no issues. The other XC shooter had a few return to battery issues the second day as the gun got dirty but they appeared to be related to running a lighter (8lb ?) recoil spring. No issues with the P DUOS or C DUO.

One shooter ran a 5" PPQ with and SRO and experienced failure to fire towards the end of day one.

Everyone else ran Glocks. The only Glock issue was caused by an aftermarket trigger. Shooter finished the class with a borrowed Glock.

Scott was gracious enough to allow me to shoot his RMR equipped LTT Beretta 92 after class. suffice to say, as a long time 92 fan it's going to cost me money.....

[GJM]

I am curious about the CORE issues, as the plate is just a filler, and the screws go from the optic into the CORE slide?

[HCM]

I am curious about the CORE issues, as the plate is just a filler, and the screws go from the optic into the CORE slide?

I'm not familiar with the CORE other than seeing @JM Campbell run them.

The Shooter in question is a fairly high volume shooter who runs a local steel target company and shoots a pair of 5" ported M&P CORES in USPSA and steel challenge. Not sure what his mounting process is (torque, thread locker etc) but I can message him and ask.

I suspect both types of mounts (factory and C&H) coming loose is indicative of a flaw in his mounting process but we shall see.

[Archer1440]

File in the FWIW column- if you want to minimize issues with loose screws on PMO’s, Loctite QuickStix 248 is the answer. This comes in a tube rather like a large Chapstick tube and has about the same consistency, which means it stays put where you put it, doesn’t drip or run, and a little goes a long way. It won’t freeze your screws to the slide and it won’t leave a mess. It also sets up pretty fast, and the tube never dries out.

I find it is far superior to the Vibratite VC3, which is recommended by some plate makers, and better than fluid Loctite solutions out there, particularly on fine-pitch threads common on PMO’s.

I have been using the same tube for about 5 years now on various items, from AR’s and pistols to motorcycles and archery gear, and am completely satisfied with this product for this purpose. (If you want to see screws come loose, shoot an Olympic recurve- they make pistols look like a pillow, when it comes to vibration.)

https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-Quick.../dp/B000132VH6

[Caballoflaco]

File in the FWIW column- if you want to minimize issues with loose screws on PMO’s, Loctite QuickStix 248 is the answer. This comes in a tube rather like a large Chapstick tube and has about the same consistency, which means it stays put where you put it, doesn’t drip or run, and a little goes a long way. It won’t freeze your screws to the slide and it won’t leave a mess. It also sets up pretty fast, and the tube never dries out.

I find it is far superior to the Vibratite VC3, which is recommended by some plate makers, and better than fluid Loctite solutions out there, particularly on fine-pitch threads common on PMO’s.

I have been using the same tube for about 5 years now on various items, from AR’s and pistols to motorcycles and archery gear, and am completely satisfied with this product for this purpose. (If you want to see screws come loose, shoot an Olympic recurve- they make pistols look like a pillow, when it comes to vibration.)

https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-Quick.../dp/B000132VH6

Thats the exact same solution I came to for pistol dots and solving the constantly loosening grub screws on my gillo riser I use for barebow. Btw I don’t know of anything that’s as good of a test for thread locker as string walking an ILF rig while shooting 6 gpp arrows.

For non archers this is another strong endorsement.

[Controlledpairs2]

STI 2011 Staccato Duo, SRO – even with cleaning, de-greasing, thread locking (blue), and torqueing the mounting plate & optics screws, this one had the mounting plate screws come loose. And yet, the screws felt “too tight” to work with using only the correct tools. Out of concern about stripping heads, etc., there was a visit to the gunsmith. Heat was applied and ultimately everything loosened up. The plate and optic were re-assembled, and the shooter finished the week without any more mechanical issues.
I’ve known this shooter for over thirty years. Aside from his L/E experience, he is a competent regional competitor. He has now expressed concerns about the current reliability, state of these systems.

May I ask what it is about that DUO system raises concerns? Or was he referring to the system of RDS/plates overall? Thanks!

[Eyesquared]

File in the FWIW column- if you want to minimize issues with loose screws on PMO’s, Loctite QuickStix 248 is the answer. This comes in a tube rather like a large Chapstick tube and has about the same consistency, which means it stays put where you put it, doesn’t drip or run, and a little goes a long way. It won’t freeze your screws to the slide and it won’t leave a mess. It also sets up pretty fast, and the tube never dries out.

I find it is far superior to the Vibratite VC3, which is recommended by some plate makers, and better than fluid Loctite solutions out there, particularly on fine-pitch threads common on PMO’s.

I have been using the same tube for about 5 years now on various items, from AR’s and pistols to motorcycles and archery gear, and am completely satisfied with this product for this purpose. (If you want to see screws come loose, shoot an Olympic recurve- they make pistols look like a pillow, when it comes to vibration.)

https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-Quick.../dp/B000132VH6

Thanks for the tip. I have been going crazy with the screws holding my SRO down backing out every 1k rounds, despite copious blue loctite and ample torque. Hopefully this will resolve my issue.

[Erick Gelhaus]

May I ask what it is about that DUO system raises concerns? Or was he referring to the system of RDS/plates overall? Thanks!

"I’ve known this shooter for over thirty years. Aside from his L/E experience, he is a competent regional competitor. He has now expressed concerns about the current reliability, state of these systems."

He has concerns about the entirity of all these systems, not just the Duo.