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Thread: Pistols (and pistol mounted optics) I saw this week

  1. #91
    In terms of false dots, the only optics I have not observed them on are the RMSc and Romeo 3 Max/XL. Using a Holosun in circle only mode also eliminates the false dot issue for me.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  2. #92
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Friday afternoon we finished with the second run of a 5-day Gunsite #350 Intermediate Pistol – Red Optics class with ten students. The round count was right at 1200 rounds with 100 rounds of frangible plus about five rounds of Sims FX per student.

    Temps were in the high 90s all week and crested 100 a time or two.

    No optics failed during the week. There was one mounting failure early in the week. However, the student re-mounted it that evening. No more mounting issues were noted during the class.

    Pistols/Optics combinations:
    Wilson Combat EDC 9XL / Trijicon SRO – the battery died on day #2;
    Glock 45 / Holosun 507C;
    Glock 34 / Holosun 507/ACSS – battery started blinking and died on day #4 of the class (3-month-old battery);
    Sig P320RX / Sig Romeo 1Pro replaced by a Sig X5/Sig Romeo1Pro – due to the trigger bar breaking;
    S&W M&P 5” 2.0 / Trijicon Type 2 RMR;
    Sig P226 SAO/Sig Romeo1;
    H&K VP9/Sig Romeo1Pro replaced with a rental P320 / Sig Romeo 1Pro – significant ammunition problems with the H&K that lessened but continued with the Sig;
    Glock 19 / Trijicon SRO;
    Sig Sauer P320 Scorpion (metal framed) / Sig Romeo1Pro;
    Grey Ghost G19 clone / Trijicon type 2 RM06 – mounting failure early in the week, fixed overnight, no more issues;

    We zeroed the optics Monday morning. A few students refined their zeroes on Wednesday.

    None of the optics demonstrated any problems when blue painter’s tape was put across the front of the glass. However, two shooters claimed to experience significant issues finding the dot when using the tape. They shot those drills without the tape. One took until much later in the week to regularly see the dot during the presentation.

    Regarding the two dead batteries, one was a Panasonic, and the other was whatever battery the manufacturer shipped with the optic. The shooter had not been changed it out.

    As part of the Monday afternoon discussion on the mechanical, maintenance side of the optics, the class was given the mounting method used by LA Sheriff’s Department’s Weapon Training Unit.

    It’s encouraging to see that we aren’t breaking the optics electronically or mechanically. However, it is still disheartening to see mounting failures.

    The students used a RMR equipped Sims FX Glock 17 during the force-on-force scenario. This is a Gunsite-owned set-up. It is an encouraging improvement from a loaner Riton optic on a temporary dovetail mount I had set up last year. My thanks to all involved in getting it done.

    This was the fifth weeklong PMO-specific class at Gunsite in the last two years. There have been increasing numbers of students coming through the regular classes with pistol-mounted optics.

  3. #93
    It’s interesting that apparently some students would choose to attend an RDS class with: Incorrectly mounted optics, OOS batteries, less than optimal ammo, etc.

    When I did my repeat 499 last October with an RDS pistol I had two more thoroughly tested, identical pistols ready to go, spare batteries, and had thoroughly tested my ammo for the week. If someone is going to spend over 3k for a class (ammo, tuition, accommodations, travel) it seems to me that having your equipment well sorted out beforehand is a given- and if they’ve already been through a 250 (as 350 students will have been) it’s even more eyebrow-raising.

    Now, one might say I was going overboard with making sure that if I had any issues, they wouldn’t be due to equipment, and I would happily accept that criticism- but anyone who has done a 250 knows one axiom:

    Two is one and one is none. And three is better, still.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    None of the optics demonstrated any problems when blue painter’s tape was put across the front of the glass. However, two shooters claimed to experience significant issues finding the dot when using the tape. They shot those drills without the tape. One took until much later in the week to regularly see the dot during the presentation..
    This could be caused by not having true binocular vision. I have the same problem. I was born with a lazy eye that required a couple of surgeries to fix. However, before the docs had gotten my eye muscles re-worked my brain had wired itself to not merge the images I’m seeing, and there isn’t a way to fix it. Iirc @Glenn E. Meyer has written a couple of scholarly papers on the same.

    That means with a taped dot and a standard strong hand index I can either see the target with my left eye or see the dot with my right (dominant) eye, but not both at the same time, as my brain doesn’t merge the images It’s possible those guys brains were switching their eye dominance without them knowing/realizing, leading to a failure to see the dot, especially if they were trying to be target focused.
    im strong, i can run faster than train

  5. #95
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    It might be helpful for dot-instructors to have a quick way to diagnose a lack of binocular vision. I know one of my first clues was when I could never see those magic-3D dot images. I wonder if a local or friendly ophthalmologist might have something similar y’all could have on a laminated card or something.
    im strong, i can run faster than train

  6. #96
    Member SoCalDep's Avatar
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    Mar 2016
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    The Secret City in Tennessee
    Regarding occluded-eye aiming, some of the physiological factors involved were discussed in this thread:

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ghlight=Phoria

    I’ve seen this several times now with students. When I see them missing I’ll tell them to present the pistol and fire immediately when they see the dot. Usually they do much better that way because their eye doesn’t have time for the muscles to fully relax. That said, it’s not a complete fix and probably more of a diagnostic/range bandaid. I think it’s an important thing to recognize so they can take other steps to deal with an occluded optic.

  7. #97
    I would again thank EG for these reports-they are a good contribution to collective knowledge here. All the “aspects” of “dot sights”-mounting, attention to batteries, etc. is something which has to be attended to, either by an operator or institutionally. Many agencies will have to focus on these aspects; that could be problematic for some. It’s not quite as simple as it may seem…
    What I take away is that mounting is critical (duh), and that some sort of check is periodically needed. “Switched on” folks will probably do that themselves. An annual inspection checklist for the sights might be a start.
    A spare battery readily available ain’t a bad idea either…

  8. #98
    Don't you just take the optic out of the box, screw it on however, and that is all there is to red dot installation?

    The irony is, if pistols were cut from the factory with an Acro footprint, that would be pretty much it for mounting.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Don't you just take the optic out of the box, screw it on however, and that is all there is to red dot installation?

    The irony is, if pistols were cut from the factory with an Acro footprint, that would be pretty much it for mounting.
    This is The Way.

  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post

    The irony is, if pistols were cut from the factory with an Acro footprint, that would be pretty much it for mounting.
    This is what I'm waiting for.

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