Pistols (and pistol mounted optics) I saw this week

[SoCalDep]

Quick question for you -- if you eliminated plates and had all direct milled installations, what percentage of issues do you think would go away?

Most.

I don't think I could put a percentage on it because the more milled solutions the more we'd find the issues with those. Of course, I believe the issues would be way less common. I think milling for the individual optic is about as good as one can get in preventing mounting failure.

Obviously with milling you're a bit married to the footprint, it modifies the pistol, and it can always be done wrong (I know people who have had slides messed up by incorrect milling jobs. That said, it was always made right one way or another).

[Lon]

@SoCalDep, if I haven't thanked you for this great contribution before, thanks. What a great resource. Perhaps it is my institutional bias, but I can't imagine keeping track of all of those different duty combinations. Every agency by me of any size, say 15 or 20, has one specific issued duty pistol. Some of them, the one I worked at among the group, also had issued back up guns. It just escapes me why a department would go for all of that variation.

I have always thought that agencies that give a variety of options are forward thinking. One option is rarely good for everyone. My first agency was a “this is your duty pistol and is also the only pistol you can carry off duty” type place. For most of the agency it (S&W 4044/4043/4046) was a horrible choice. Giving options is a little more challenging logistically speaking, but I think the benefits outweigh the logistic challenges.

[DaBigBR]

I have always thought that agencies that give a variety of options are forward thinking. One option is rarely good for everyone. My first agency was a “this is your duty pistol and is also the only pistol you can carry off duty” type place. For most of the agency it (S&W 4044/4043/4046) was a horrible choice. Giving options is a little more challenging logistically speaking, but I think the benefits outweigh the logistic challenges.

It's just so much more practical. Being caught in that "this is the gun" (and often the light and the holster, etc) mentality makes moving the boulder of change very challenging.

[Lon]

It's just so much more practical.

Agreed. But I’ve seen too many cases of where the one size fits all mentality being detrimental to certain shooters. Back when there were height and weight standards and there were no female officers the one size fits all made more sense.

[professor]

Agreed. But I’ve seen too many cases of where the one size fits all mentality being detrimental to certain shooters. Back when there were height and weight standards and there were no female officers the one size fits all made more sense.

The same agencies with the one gun for all, do not require the same size uniforms for all. And usually have different types of patrol vehicles for different responsibilities.

[HCM]

It's just so much more practical. Being caught in that "this is the gun" (and often the light and the holster, etc) mentality makes moving the boulder of change very challenging.

No.

It’s just so much lazier both literally and Intellectually.

Unfortunately too many people in LE have binary thinking. There are viable solutions in between f**k you one gun for everybody and the Helter skelter of “whatever the range master will approve.”

Our legacy agency, prior to the DHS merger, went from issued gun plus reasonable POW list to fuck you one gun for everyone and it was a shit show.

I work for an agency of 15k sworn. We have an authorized list of optional POW guns, all Sig and Glock striker fired 9mm. They all operate similarly so training issues are minimal. You can only add or swap out one POW per year and have two handguns @on the books” which minimizes the gun of the month club BS. We have an authorized list of lights, optics etc and a description of required and prohibited features for holsters.

Even if you stick with one make /caliber such as 9mm Glocks, what is the operational impact of someone buying their own G26/19/45/17/34 ?

I see how some of my co-workers shoot, if you’ve expended all your ammo to no effect or you couldn’t be bothered to carry an extra magazine or two because it’s “paranoid” I’m not giving you my ammo in a real fight so sharing mags is not a valid argument.

If we and other large agencies such as the FBI (13k Sworn) NYPD (40k sworn), LAPD (10k) etc can make reasonable choices work so can smaller agencies.

There are other benefits to allowing reasonable accommodation in choice of firearms. As a firearms instructor in the field as opposed to an Academy setting, the people I am training and qualifying are also the coworkers I may need to depend on in a gun fight. Do I want that person armed with a gun that is too big or too small for them with which they can barely qualify, Or a gun that allows them to shoot more effectively?

Conversely if we have someone who is unable to qualify, the fact that we have already made reasonable accommodation Via optional guns helps mitigate the subsequent argument that it is the gun rather than the shooter.

[DaBigBR]

No.

It’s just so much lazier both literally and Intellectually.

Perhaps it wasn't clear that I am against a single issued gun system and for reasonable choice and variety. I have been pushing the boulder, so to speak, in my agency for a decade and we are finally starting to see some motion.

[HCM]

Perhaps it wasn't clear that I am against a single issued gun system and for reasonable choice and variety. I have been pushing the boulder, so to speak, in my agency for a decade and we are finally starting to see some motion.

All arguments you can use though.

As @Gadfly can attest, the biggest issue is people buy cheap junk instead of the required ORM / duty grade gear.

The last range day I worked I had a guy with a malfunctioning P365 which is very unusual. Long story short the malfunctions were trace to an unauthorized aftermarket (pro mag )magazine which he bought because it was half the cost of an OEM magazine.

[ASH556]

@SoCalDep

What round counts per day are you guys doing on average?

My primary reason for asking is a gut check against my own setup. I'm running MOS Glocks (19 and 45), with FCD plates and RMR's torqued to FCD specs, but with the chapstick blue loc-tite rather than the Vibra-Tite FCD includes. I ran the 45 through 952 rounds in 2 days at a Gabe White class in September. I've not had issues with either optic. The Ameriglo GL-470 rear slipped in the dovetail about halfway through TD2. I replaced irons on both pistols with Heinies w/set screw rears post class.

Secondarily I have a good friend who is at the end of his mil career and is teaching at a place in AL. I was at his house Saturday night putting together an AR for him and he was asking me what optics plates I was running saying theirs were "all failing." They're running Glocks mostly and he mentioned CHWPS plates, but doesn't know if that's what they all were.

Thanks for your insights!

[DaBigBR]

All arguments you can use though.

As @Gadfly can attest, the biggest issue is people buy cheap junk instead of the required ORM / duty grade gear.

The last range day I worked I had a guy with a malfunctioning P365 which is very unusual. Long story short the malfunctions were trace to an unauthorized aftermarket (pro mag )magazine which he bought because it was half the cost of an OEM magazine.

No worries, man.

We're getting there. We got a few chief that was willing to listen and that's really been a big help.