Pistols (and pistol mounted optics) I saw this week

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I say this lasts for a month tops.

Since I just added another gen2 CORE, this one ported I'm hopeful it last's a tad longer as I'm not buying a 3rd SRO & looking hard @ Romeo3 Max + a plate for it.

[SoCalDep]

I say this lasts for a month tops.

Interesting first post. I’m super interested in your ability to predict my actions. Please expand on your thoughts. I’m looking forward to understanding why I’m wrong about me.

[DexterTaylor]

Interesting first post. I’m super interested in your ability to predict my actions. Please expand on your thoughts. I’m looking forward to understanding why I’m wrong about me.

It’s Andy. Don’t shoot me.

[SoCalDep]

In that case, best first post ever… lol.

[Erick Gelhaus]

During July 19-23, 2021, I coached a concealed carry skills & tactics class at Gunsi. The weather varied between the 70s / raining and 90s / clear. Somewhat dusty conditions when clear, beyond normal range dust. The round count was @ 950 of the ball with another 50 of frangible.

The guns:

G19 w/RMR – nothing noted;

Sig P365XL – the front sight departed the gun by Tuesday AM, and replacement was ordered & installed by the end of the week. Our gunsmith noted significant slide-to-frame rail fit concerns, including wobbling that appeared to come from the frame rails. Repeated issues with mounting the Shield RMSc on it, despite regularly tightening and checking;

M&P CORE 5” 9mm w/ RMR – difficulties feeding frangible ammo, yet had no issues ‘live’ ammunition;
Glock 19 with an SRO – nothing noted;

Shadow Systems MR918 w/ Holosun – issues with Glock/OEM magazines seating which resulted in a round not being chamber after reloads. (I believe I saw this problem and had thoughts on it previously, I’ll have to look);

Wilson Combat EDC X9 – nothing noted;

S&W M&P Shield 9mm with after-market trigger & sights – rounds nose driving in the magazines that couldn’t be cleared by Tap, Roll/Rack and necessitated a reload. The sub-compact pistols necessitate some changes in manipulations, especially with reloads & stoppages;

Wilson Combat 1911 – nothing noted;

Glock 19X – nothing noted;

Please, install your optics per the manufacturers' recommendations, including de-greasing, torque values, and thread lockers. Then paint pen mark your screws and windage/elevation adjustments as well. If that fails, then seek out other best practices.

I then did a one-day pistol-mounted optic tutorial for a student with two PMO-equipped pistols – STI Stacatto 4somethingish” and a Wilson EDC X9. Other than a couple magazines that failed to lock the slide to the rear, no mechanical issues were noted, however:

Cat Crap is your friend in rainy, humid conditions – the high desert during monsoon meets that criteria;

Check & confirm zero. He was adamant that he zeroed those pistols. The shooter was just far enough to one side with some consistency that we thought it was a shooter/hand/trigger issue. After a bit of time, I put him on a zero target, and we got him adjusted to where we could confirm/deny individual issues.

Have another week-long PMO class starting tomorrow. I'll post that info next weekend.

[HeavyDuty]

Please, install your optics per the manufacturers' recommendations, including de-greasing, torque values, and thread lockers. Then paint pen mark your screws and windage/elevation adjustments as well. If that fails, then seek out other best practices.

Is the Acro mounting system still proving to be more stable?

[Erick Gelhaus]

Is the Acro mounting system still proving to be more stable?

Yes! Emphatically yes, albeit with fewer samples. Spoke with another instructor here this AM. He is the chief of a 25+/- officer dept in CA that issues G45s with Acro P1s on the MOS/Aimpoint plates. They've had a single issue of a mounting problem and it didn't re-occur. My Acro has been on the Atei cut slide for two years of use, teaching, training, demoing, etc and no problems with its attachment to the slide.

[HeavyDuty]

Yes! Emphatically yes, albeit with fewer samples. Spoke with another instructor here this AM. He is the chief of a 25+/- officer dept in CA that issues G45s with Acro P1s on the MOS/Aimpoint plates. They've had a single issue of a mounting problem and it didn't re-occur. My Acro has been on the Atei cut slide for two years of use, teaching, training, demoing, etc and no problems with its attachment to the slide.

Thank you! I’m considering having a gun direct milled for an Acro, but it’s good to hear the MOS plates are working well. The P2 is the RDS I’ve really been waiting for, at least in theory.

[Oldherkpilot]

It’s Andy. Don’t shoot me.

I'm going to remember this line! Five words and this dude goes from certain death to best buds. That could.come in handy out in da streetz.😁

[Erick Gelhaus]

On Friday (7/30), I finished up the third run of a Gunsite 250RDS class Friday afternoon. Fifteen students – decent, normal humans; L/E, and retired Mil plus a service academy cadet. They shot between 900-950 rounds each, all 9mm, with 50 rounds of frangible. Temps were generally in the 80s, and it's monsoon season here, so the rain kept the dust down.

Pistol/Optic combinations:
Sig P320 X5 & Sig Romeo 1 – false dot;
LTT Beretta 92F & Holosun 507C – mounting loosened.
CZ P10F & Holosun 507c Green – Lock-out mode kicked in while working on downed dot drill. It took a trip to the Gunsmithy to find the magic path back to being illuminated, even after pulling the battery & re-installing it.
Sig P320 X5 & Romeo 1 Pro – adjustment issues, see below.
STI Staccato 9mm & RMR type 2 – CHPWS plate & mounting.

G19X & RMR type 2 – no issues noted or admitted.
Glock 34 & Holosun 507c - no issues noted or admitted.
Sig M17 (civ) & Romeo 1 - no issues noted or admitted.
Walther PPQ/Q5 (all metal) & Holosun 507c - no issues noted or admitted.
H&K VP9 & RMR type 2 – no issues noted or admitted.
FN LS EDC & RMR type 1 - no issues noted or admitted.
Sig Legion P226 & Romeo 1 Pro - no issues noted or admitted.
STI Staccato & RMR Type 2 - no issues noted or admitted.
Sig P365XL & Holosun 407k - no issues noted or admitted.

There were no mechanical failures of any optics in this class.
One odd mechanical glitch when I had the class power their optics back up after downed, blocked dot drills. No combination of button pushing on a Holosun & battery manipulation on the range could get it illuminated again.

Mounting continues to be a failure point for these. Since I had the only Acro and there weren't any 509Ts in the class, everything was a screw down into the slide mounting problem. Please, for the love of whatever deity you believe in, mark your screws with a paint pen or nail polish so you can see that they're loosening up.

Regarding the STI/RMR/CHPWS combination - the STI came cut for optics. Per the shooter, he ordered an after-market plate plus Torx bits and appropriate height sights from CHPWS in time for the class. The plate and a wrong height sight arrived on time, but the Torx bits did not. The shooter was not able to properly install and tighten the mount as a result. After the plate came loose, it went to the onsite Gunsmithy. They correctly re-installed and secured the mounting plate. After that? No more issues. Even after the student returned home, he had not yet received those items.

False dots are a thing. And it is interesting how and when they appear. Most of the ranges at Gunsite are west facing (one is NW facing). Only one student noticed them in this class, with a Sig Romeo 1. He saw them in the morning (when we were shooting drills with the downrange lens taped over with blue painter's tape) and later in the day as well. Previously, the false dot issue only appeared here, with Trijicon RMRs later in the afternoon. However, I've also encountered it in the AM during the PMO instructor class I taught in New England this March. The shooters who experienced it did so on an east-facing range in the AM with RMRs.

Special mention (and not positive):
We zeroed after lunch on Day #1 and re-visited the zeroes on Wednesday morning. Nearly all were minor adjustments that resulted from the shooters performing better with the optics, though not all. Another instructor and I spent a fair amount of time on a couple of Sig X5's with Romeo1 optics. There was student frustration when refining zero on Wednesday.

The problem I'm referring to is a complete lack of positive adjustments on those sights. I've heard people justifiably gripe about inconsistent clicks on the early Acros, and they're right. But at least there are some clicks in the Acro, albeit faint, as you go around that circle. I felt none on the Romeo1/Romeo1Pro. None. Before Monday, I hadn't encountered one of those in the wild, so I could not advise people about them (While I've taken the Sig Academy's red dot instructor class, I neither shot nor zeroed their dots). An example of how this impacted students – we looked at the zero targets, communicated the amount of elevation & windage adjustments required. The absence of clicks led to some interesting adjustments. Whoops. Big learning point for me. It was difficult to discern the tic marks around windage & elevation adjustment dials even with prescription eyewear. The M17/R1P combination had this issue, too, but the shooter had much better vision. Another point to re-visit.