Pistols (and pistol mounted optics) I saw this week

[JCN]

I get it, but yours is a sample of one. I’m not discounting your experience and I’d like to try it, if only in specific applications. If it’s an improvement then that’s a good thing.

I simply won’t advocate for it without a bigger sample size and more testing. I switch guns a lot so my main training Glock 34 probably has the most through it at around 10k-15k rounds but we’ve got several guys running optics using our methods that are at 40,000 to 80,000 rounds. Some probably more. That doesn’t mean ours is the best way… it just means it’s a pretty reliable way.

I would also question the rub marks you describe. Was there rubbing and then loose screws, or did the screws come loose which allowed rubbing? Did mounting inconsistencies such as failure to degrease surfaces decrease friction and allow movement? What were the factory instructions and how might that have played into the optic coming loose?

Movement is the enemy and if the E6000 minimizes it reliably then I’m all for it.

Totally fair points you make above re: advocating.
From a proof of concept standpoint it seems like a good idea to basically meld the optic plate to the slide rather than rely on the screws.

Rubbing with tight screws…

This is kind of what I’m talking about. Rub marks despite a rock solid installation. The screws aren’t preventing the rub even though they’re doing the job. Thin film helps the screws just focus on compression and not also have to deal with shear.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Department issue?

So, I'm guessing this was asked about the low light class post? Yes?

Those three were personally owned - I know two of them belonged to cops whose agency will not allow them for duty use. The third was in the holster of someone who did not worry about department regulations.

[Tokarev]

So, I'm guessing this was asked about the low light class post? Yes?

Those three were personally owned - I know two of them belonged to cops whose agency will not allow them for duty use. The third was in the holster of someone who did not worry about department regulations.

I find it somewhat amusing that the three shooters running Staccato 2011s with Modlite or Surefire lights are topping them with Holosun optics. Just seems most Staccato shooters are probably going to be more brand conscious than most.

Then again, the closed emitter options are limited. The MPS might not have been available when these pistols were put together. And the Aimpoint availability has been very hit or miss.



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[M2CattleCo]

I’ve waited about a year to post this about plates.

The only way they’re going to be as reliable as a good milled install is to bed them with JB Weld like you do rails on bolt gun receivers.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Yesterday afternoon I finished up teaching another Gunsite #250 Defensive Pistol w/ Optics class.

Round count: 900-950 & 50 rounds frangible. Temps low 80s to high 90s, sun & rain.

Students’ pistols & optics were:
Glock 17 w/Holosun 507T;
Glock 47 w/Acro P2; *
Glock 45 w/Holosun 509T; *
Glock 45 w/ 509T; *
Glock 45 w/509T; *
Glock 17 w/Trijicon RMR Type 2;
Glock 47 with Trijicon RMR Type 2; *
H&K VP9 w/ Trijicon RMR Type 2;
Glock 34 w/ Holosun 509T;
Glock 23 converted to 9mm, w/ Trijicon RMR Type 2;
Glock 19 MOS w/Trijicon RMR Type 2;
Glock 19 w/Trijicon SRO;
Sig Sauer P320 Scorpion (metal frame), w/Riton Optics 3Tactix PRD2 (2 days) & then w/Holosun 500series;
Sig P320 w/ Romeo1Pro; *
Glock 34 w/508T;
Ed Brown 1911 Bobtail w/ Trijicon RMR Type 2;
Glock 17 w/Trijicon RMR Type 2;
Glock 19 w/509T;
Glock 17 w/ Trijicon RMR Type 2;
Glock 19 w/Trijicon RMR Type 2;

Instructors were demoing with:
S&W M&P 2.0 9mm Compact & Holosun w/508T;
Glock 45 w/Aimpoint Acro P2; *
Glock 34 w/ Trijicon RMR;
And I didn’t note the 4th gun;

*= Organization-issued pistol and optic.

Two of the issued 509Ts had been incorrectly installed by a department armorer without the use of any thread locker nor witness marks. It loosened up on Tuesday afternoon. I tightened it, and sent him to the on-site gunsmith who re-installed it with a thread locker. The second loosened up on Friday morning;
A Holosun 50-- had one screw come loose, it was identified because the witness mark was no longer intact. I hand tightened past the original witness mark and had the gunsmith re-install;
Riton optic 3Tactix PRD2 was auto-adjust only. The windage/elevation adjustments were not tactile, they would turn without clicks or references. The student replaced it with a Holosun for those reasons. This student’s new Holosun optic first loosened up to the point it was adversely impacting any shooting of a group (for me too). Once tightened back up, a too-long screw was contacting the extractor and interfering with the loading (chambering) process. Once the screw was replaced, there were no further issues;
The shooter with the Glock 19 / auto adjust Type 2 RMR mentioned the dot was “wigging out” during the low light segment of the class;
The student using the Glock 19/Trijicon SRO combination (who has previously taken Jedlinski & TacCon classes) observed a tremendous amount of dirt, and debris on the lens which he attributed to the relationship of the chamber & optic;

I think it’s been asked and answered before, but … not seeing optics themselves fail like we used to. We are still seeing mounting issues – regardless of whether it is a bolt down into the slide model or a bolt/clamp across mount. Following the mounting instructions shared by @SoCalDep here and elsewhere should alleviate an awful lot of that.

[HCM]

We ran our first qualifications since transitioning everyone to issued P320 /Romeo1PROs. Had 2 R1Ps which apparently had zero shifts - both dots shifted low left in relation to the co-witness irons causing hits about 6” high and 6” right at 7 yards.

We were able to re-zero the optics and the users will check them vs the irons for shifting until they can be replaced.

The range we were on that day is fully covered so it was not a false dot issue.

[guymontag]

Use E6000 on the plate to slide interface and you won’t need to do more with the screws.

It’s removable and works very well.

I believe you and Clusterfrack? spoke about this a while back. I used it on my SP01 Tac/ RMR plate, just wanted to say thanks! Great idea and no issues so far.

[1Rangemaster]

@Erick Gelhaus- thanks very much for the report. Notable that two of the mount failures were “agency issues”. IOW, the agency armorer(s) could be said to have not paid close attention. I’ve seen this before with SWAT teams and the like. It may be a serious future concern as departments struggle with “defunding”, etc.
The auto adjust doesn’t seem to be working out. My thinking at the moment is settle on a setting, and leave it. Comments?
The long screw incident is instructive. I’ve seen instances where folks w/ the MOS pour loctite into the screw hole and (attempt) to carry on. On the MOS right screw-viewed from shooter perspective- that can actually break into the extractor rod cavity and cause extraction problems.
Any issues with dust, trash, water, etc. getting into open emitters?

Thanks again for observations

[Lon]

The auto adjust doesn’t seem to be working out. My thinking at the moment is settle on a setting, and leave it. Comments?

Correct. The problem with the auto-adjust can’t compensate or distinguish between darkness and when a white light is used to illuminate a target. It still reads “darkness” because the light is way out in front so the dot doesn’t get brighter and consequently gets washed out on the target by the white light. When I set our program up, the auto adjusting only versions were prohibited for duty use.

[WobblyPossum]

The auto adjust doesn’t seem to be working out. My thinking at the moment is settle on a setting, and leave it. Comments?

Correct. The problem with the auto-adjust can’t compensate or distinguish between darkness and when a white light is used to illuminate a target. It still reads “darkness” because the light is way out in front so the dot doesn’t get brighter and consequently gets washed out on the target by the white light. When I set our program up, the auto adjusting only versions were prohibited for duty use.

I’m running an RM07 (6.5 MOA, manually adjustable RMR) on my G19. I was running it on auto adjust for the first month. I thought it was the bomb. Perfect level of brightness in sunny New Mexico outdoor ranges, only slightly brighter than I would have wanted it to be indoors. Then I went to my agency firearms instructor class which had a block of instruction on shooting and teaching low-light shooting. Initially we were shooting freshly painted steel and I didn’t have a problem with the setting the optic chose. Then we did something a little more complicated. The drill that we finished the night off with involved multiple turning target stands. The targets were similar to the Casino Drill targets except with more numbers, inconsistent shapes, and random colors. I had a really hard time being able to distinguish the dot against the targets. After that, I began setting the brightness manually to a setting I could see during daytime sunshine and leaving it.