Pistols (and pistol mounted optics) I saw this week

[DaBigBR]

I'll play...

Taught a red dot handgun transition class for my department the last two days. This was our third class for the rank and file with the first two going late last summer. We are limited to an outdoor range and a combination of factors beyond the Iowa winter kept us from doing more than those two despite approving personally owned guns and optics last Spring.

Class attendance was twelve officers, all from our agency. Service length ran from pretty green to 27 years with us. This was our first class that I would describe as "mixed skill level." The first couple were mainly enthusiasts, but this one mixed in a few people who struggle at the range and have been convinced to give it a shot.

Guns:
Glock 17 with 509T (x2)
Glock 19 with 407C Green
Glock 19 with 507C Green
Glock 19 with 509T
Glock 19 with RM06
Glock 34 with 509T
Glock 43X MOS with 507K
Glock 45 with 509T (x3)
Somehow my notes are missing a gun...

All the guns were Gen 5 MOS with the exception of the 43X (obviously) and one of the 19s that was milled by Maple Leaf. I shot a 17 Gen 5 MOS with Steiner MPS. The gun and optic were brand new and I wanted to start with a clean slate to show zeroing. The MPS seems very nice. C&H was kind enough to overnight me a T&E (preproduction) plate for it so I could use it for this class.

Round count was about 700 rounds over the two days. The officer with the 43X was one of the ones that struggles and I will hand it to her putting up with that gun and firing schedule. She is a detective and was convinced by somebody else that the 43X would be easier to shoot. It obviously is not. Weather was trash at 40s, overcast, and relatively windy.

We had two optic plates loosen up (17 with 509T and 19 with 509T). Both were installed by me previously with C&H plates, Loctite 242, acetone prep, etc. I consider myself meticulous about the installs, but these two failed. They were re-installed with the same process and we're fine the rest of the way. The one RMR also started to go dead after the first day. The battery was believed to be original and 3+ years old. It was replaced.

Performance of the optics themselves was the usual boring fare. Nothing failed or lost zero. The guys with the green dots really dig them. I have one on a 19 and it works better for my eyes.

I remain very unhappy with the fit of Gen 5 Glocks with TLR-1 WMLs in Safariland holsters. Out of maybe six of those combinations, maybe one was serviceable. These are brand new 7360RDS holsters. I will be in touch with Safariland this week. I am of the understanding that they deny the issue.

This class gets out total deployment up to about 30-35 officers out of about 80. I suspect we will make it to the 50% mark before the year is out. This is significant because we did not allow personally owned guns until last year. The buy-in has been very good.

[HCM]

I'll play...

Taught a red dot handgun transition class for my department the last two days. This was our third class for the rank and file with the first two going late last summer. We are limited to an outdoor range and a combination of factors beyond the Iowa winter kept us from doing more than those two despite approving personally owned guns and optics last Spring.

Class attendance was twelve officers, all from our agency. Service length ran from pretty green to 27 years with us. This was our first class that I would describe as "mixed skill level." The first couple were mainly enthusiasts, but this one mixed in a few people who struggle at the range and have been convinced to give it a shot.

Guns:
Glock 17 with 509T (x2)
Glock 19 with 407C Green
Glock 19 with 507C Green
Glock 19 with 509T
Glock 19 with RM06
Glock 34 with 509T
Glock 43X MOS with 507K
Glock 45 with 509T (x3)
Somehow my notes are missing a gun...

All the guns were Gen 5 MOS with the exception of the 43X (obviously) and one of the 19s that was milled by Maple Leaf. I shot a 17 Gen 5 MOS with Steiner MPS. The gun and optic were brand new and I wanted to start with a clean slate to show zeroing. The MPS seems very nice. C&H was kind enough to overnight me a T&E (preproduction) plate for it so I could use it for this class.

Round count was about 700 rounds over the two days. The officer with the 43X was one of the ones that struggles and I will hand it to her putting up with that gun and firing schedule. She is a detective and was convinced by somebody else that the 43X would be easier to shoot. It obviously is not. Weather was trash at 40s, overcast, and relatively windy.

We had two optic plates loosen up (17 with 509T and 19 with 509T). Both were installed by me previously with C&H plates, Loctite 242, acetone prep, etc. I consider myself meticulous about the installs, but these two failed. They were re-installed with the same process and we're fine the rest of the way. The one RMR also started to go dead after the first day. The battery was believed to be original and 3+ years old. It was replaced.

Performance of the optics themselves was the usual boring fare. Nothing failed or lost zero. The guys with the green dots really dig them. I have one on a 19 and it works better for my eyes.

I remain very unhappy with the fit of Gen 5 Glocks with TLR-1 WMLs in Safariland holsters. Out of maybe six of those combinations, maybe one was serviceable. These are brand new 7360RDS holsters. I will be in touch with Safariland this week. I am of the understanding that they deny the issue.

This class gets out total deployment up to about 30-35 officers out of about 80. I suspect we will make it to the 50% mark before the year is out. This is significant because we did not allow personally owned guns until last year. The buy-in has been very good.

The fit of our issued TLR-1 HL in our issued 6000 series Safariland holsters with SIG P320s has also problematic. Problematic enough I’ve personally gone to all TLR-7A and X-300 for serious use.

[AMC]

The fit of our issued TLR-1 HL in our issued 6000 series Safariland holsters with SIG P320s has also problematic. Problematic enough I’ve personally gone to all TLR-7A and X-300 for serious use.

The 7360 series holsters we received for 320s with weaponlights were atrocious. Couldn't get the guns into the holsters, much less out. Somehow, Safariland heard of our disappointment, and I got a call from Tommy Campbell. He acknowledged the issue, and said they had made several "generational" changes to the 7TS series holsters for WMLs. They sent us new ones, which were substantially better....but not ideal. And still no DG Switch compatibility. I know a lot of folks like the US Duty Gear stuff, and it is quality, but it's still basically a 6000 series gun bucket. We would like a bit more retention.

I'm still a huge fan of the Blackhawk T Series L3D. Spent some time working some exercises that emphasized speed out of the holster today. I'm as fast with that holster as I am out of a competition rig on the timer. Once you get used to it, the draw is totally smooth.

[DpdG]

Any rumors around for the Blackhawk T series and Acro/509T/MPS fits?

[SoCalDep]

Any rumors around for the Blackhawk T series and Acro/509T/MPS fits?

My L3D for Glock/TLR-1 or 2 works with the ACRO and 509T if you take the shield off. It is my understanding they are working on a shield for the enclosed emitters.

[AMC]

My L3D for Glock/TLR-1 or 2 works with the ACRO and 509T if you take the shield off. It is my understanding they are working on a shield for the enclosed emitters.

Interestingly, the L3D for a Sig 320 w/TLR1 HL WILL fit the Romeo 2. Don't know if it would fit with a Glock holster with an adapter plate on the gun, though....

[AMC]

@SoCalDep.....forgot to add. They are also working on a slightly 'taller' release paddle for the L3D series holsters....for racoon-pawed officers w/short thumbs. Should have one in hand next week. I'm still preferring this system over everything else right now, even factoring in pros and cons. Even over an ALS only with 'Nub' mod.....'cause it allows a remote switch for the light.

[SoCalDep]

Since my last post we've done a few classes.

Mid march we did a department pistol optic class with 18 students, including four from two local outside agencies. Pistols/ Optics were as follows:

Sig P320 / Romeo 1Pro
Glock 34 / RMR - manual
Sig P320 / Romeo 1Pro
M&P 2.0 4.25" / Leupold DeltaPoint Pro (Factory "6A" plate)
M&P 2.0 4.25" / RMR - manual
M&P 2.0 5" / Holosun 509T
M&P 2.0 5" / Holosun 507C
Staccato / RMR - manual
M&P 2.0 5" / Holosun 509T
M&P 5" / RMR - manual
M&P 4.25" / RMR - manual
M&P 5" / RMR - manual
M&P 5" / RMR - manual
M&P 4.25" / RMR - manual
M&P 4.25" / Holosun 508T
M&P 4.25" / Holosun 508T
M&P 4.25" / Aimpoint ACRO P1 (Borrowed)
Beretta LTT / Holosun 507C

On day #1 one of the 509Ts came loose on an M&P. It had been installed by an unauthorized individual with VC-3. It was reinstalled with our methods but came loose again on day #2. The optic - plate screw was loose, but the plate - slide screws were still tight. In addition, another 509T came loose, where the plate - slide screws were loose but the optic - plate screw remained tight. Both were re-installed (again - the second 509T had come loose the previous week when the person was practicing for the class) and completed the class.

The C&H plate continues to be an issue. I'm in contact with C&H trying to solve the problem. Some guns work fine, some fail after hundreds of rounds and some fail almost immediately. I inspected six pistols with 509Ts mounted earlier this week. All of them appeared to have the same lack of perfect fit between the plate and slide except one that fit flush. This is consistent with one other that I mounted a few weeks ago. I'm not sure if that's the issue but C&H is looking into it.


We held a 40hr firearm instructor school with nine students. In this class only one student was from an outside agency. Three of the students ran optics, which included:

Staccato P-DPO / RMR - manual
Glock 34 / Holosun 508T
Glock 19 / Holosun 508T

On the evening of the fourth day (low light session) the plate - slide screws sheared on the Glock 19 and the optic came off the gun. The optic - plate screws were still tight to the MOS plate. The plate had been mounted by someone else and I couldn't tell what thread-locker was used.


In a recent 1911/2011 certification class, we had thirteen students with seven optics. Two students ran single-stacks (a .45 Colt Gold Cup and a 9mm Springfield Range Officer Operator) and the rest ran Staccatos. all of the optics were (obviously) on the Staccatos. Optics were:

Holosun 509T
4 x RMR - manual
2 x DeltaPoint Pro

Round count was approximately 750 over two days and no optics had issues. The only pistol that had issues was a single Staccato that consistently failed to lock to the rear on an empty magazine with every magazine used. It will be going back to get fixed.


This past week we ran another pistol optic class. All the eleven students were from our department. I neglected to get an exact list, but there were two Glocks, a 34 with a 507C and a 45 with a 508T. The other nine pistols were M&Ps with a mix of RMR - manual models and Holosun 507Cs, 508Ts, and 509Ts. There were no optic issues but man our ammo sucks. We had multiple malfunctions with several pistols. The powder charge is super inconsistent.

[AMC]

@SoCalDep.....on the ammo issue, is this training or duty ammo? We made a switch a few years ago, based entirely on quality control with a particular brand of duty ammo. We do use practice ammo for some training, but at this point only for recruit training. We used it for In Service Perishable Skills training briefly, but the cops kept trying to load it into their guns to go back on duty. It just got to be too much trouble keeping watch on them. You had to IMMEDIATELY remove the ammo.....but then some started grabbing a box extra before the end of training. It's like dealing with kindergarteners.

[HCM]

@SoCalDep.....on the ammo issue, is this training or duty ammo? We made a switch a few years ago, based entirely on quality control with a particular brand of duty ammo. We do use practice ammo for some training, but at this point only for recruit training. We used it for In Service Perishable Skills training briefly, but the cops kept trying to load it into their guns to go back on duty. It just got to be too much trouble keeping watch on them. You had to IMMEDIATELY remove the ammo.....but then some started grabbing a box extra before the end of training. It's like dealing with kindergarteners.

Literally have our practice ammo dyed Barney purple to differentiate it from duty ammo and this is still an issue.