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Thread: Stuff I learned from Ben Stoeger

  1. #11
    My wife made an interesting observation about Ben’s “method,” which is very much like doing a painting by the numbers. Look here, move the dot there, look to the next spot, move the dot, move your eyes to the next movement spot and then move your body there. A stage becomes a series of looks followed by do’s, and in that way it is very manageable. How do you eat an elephant — one bite at a time. You are never worrying about whole arrays or whole stages, just your next look.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  2. #12
    Site Supporter MGW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    My wife made an interesting observation about Ben’s “method,” which is very much like doing a painting by the numbers. Look here, move the dot there, look to the next spot, move the dot, move your eyes to the next movement spot and then move your body there. A stage becomes a series of looks followed by do’s, and in that way it is very manageable. How do you eat an elephant — one bite at a time. You are never worrying about whole arrays or whole stages, just your next look.
    I believe being able to target focus 100% of the time would be a huge advantage. Not the kind shooting we are talking about but I was really struggling with group shooting a couple of years ago. I had a terrible flinch and was over aiming. I switched to target focus for all slow fire groups out of pure desperation. My groups immediately tightened up and the flinch went away.

    I gotta take the dive into dots and see what I learn.
    “If you know the way broadly you will see it in everything." - Miyamoto Musashi

  3. #13
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    Something both Frank Garcia and Shannon Smith suggested to me years ago was to use just your pointer finger to get yourself used to leading with your eyes. Look at one point on a wall or in the distance, point at it, then find another point with your eyes and bring your pointer finger to that point. Helped me a lot. I even do it in the car on the way to a match just to brush up. Also do it with two hands (strong hand against cheek, weak hand pointing) to simulate carbine movement. Might be hocus pocus but two very strong shooters suggested it and it’s seemed to help me.
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  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by MGW View Post
    I’m curious how did you figure out how to stop the post ignition push?
    You kind of don't, in a sense of one definitive way. Ben says that an instinct to over-tense and push on the gun stays with us all our shooting life regardless of skill level, and we have to fight that and work on that all the time. I imagine that everyone will develop their own proprioceptive or mental cues. In one of my classes with him he said "you have to let the gun hit you", meaning letting the gun recoil and transfer its energy into the shooter without shooter pushing back. I latched on that phrase and when I work specifically on that, like doubles or Bill, I keep telling this to myself while I shoot. The hope then is that doing that enough times helps to ingrain the habit. While this can be seen and somewhat addressed in dry fire, I do think that you need live fire to sort this out effectively.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  5. #15
    Site Supporter MGW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    You kind of don't, in a sense of one definitive way. Ben says that an instinct to over-tense and push on the gun stays with us all our shooting life regardless of skill level, and we have to fight that and work on that all the time. I imagine that everyone will develop their own proprioceptive or mental cues. In one of my classes with him he said "you have to let the gun hit you", meaning letting the gun recoil and transfer its energy into the shooter without shooter pushing back. I latched on that phrase and when I work specifically on that, like doubles or Bill, I keep telling this to myself while I shoot. The hope then is that doing that enough times helps to ingrain the habit. While this can be seen and somewhat addressed in dry fire, I do think that you need live fire to sort this out effectively.
    I'm of the opinion that it can't be completely eliminated but I like this line of thinking. The doubles drill that Ben talks about makes a little more sense now too.
    “If you know the way broadly you will see it in everything." - Miyamoto Musashi

  6. #16
    Member 98z28's Avatar
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    Excellent stuff. This echos what I remember reading in Brian Enos's book. He mentions not caring how much recoil/movement there is as long as the sights lift and return consistently and quickly. Being relaxed is more important. I recall a story about him choosing a gun with more recoil for a steel challenge match because the recoil impulse was more predictable and he could be more relaxed. It's been years since I read his book, so I'm probably butchering that story.

    I suspect that being more relaxed also helps extend (productive) training sessions and maintain consistent performance over a long match as there is only so long you can muscle the gun with both hands before fatigue starts to impact performance.

  7. #17
    Site Supporter CCT125US's Avatar
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    Golden nuggets, thanks @GJM.

    I've also heard it described as floating the gun.
    Taking a break from social media.

  8. #18
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    @GJM was this in a structured class with others or private instruction?

    if Ben makes his way back to my area I've considered trying to schedule some 1:1 time
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  9. #19
    One thing you can try is the measurement drill by Hwansik Kim (youtube should have it). It will show you exactly that you are shoving it down, if you are. Another thing to focus on for me was isolating just trigger finger moving and let the recoil happen, i believe they say to just ride the lightning lol. Having the correct firing hand tension is a big thing, because what I would do is tense that hand up to fight the recoil while pressing the trigger. Hope some of this helps.



    Quote Originally Posted by MGW View Post
    I'm of the opinion that it can't be completely eliminated but I like this line of thinking. The doubles drill that Ben talks about makes a little more sense now too.

  10. #20
    Site Supporter MGW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98z28 View Post
    Excellent stuff. This echos what I remember reading in Brian Enos's book. He mentions not caring how much recoil/movement there is as long as the sights lift and return consistently and quickly. Being relaxed is more important. I recall a story about him choosing a gun with more recoil for a steel challenge match because the recoil impulse was more predictable and he could be more relaxed. It's been years since I read his book, so I'm probably butchering that story.

    I suspect that being more relaxed also helps extend (productive) training sessions and maintain consistent performance over a long match as there is only so long you can muscle the gun with both hands before fatigue starts to impact performance.
    Good stuff here too. Ties right in with some of the recent discussions and experiences comparing shorter pistols like the 43x and G45 to their longer slide counterparts.
    “If you know the way broadly you will see it in everything." - Miyamoto Musashi

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