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Thread: Stuff I learned from Ben Stoeger

  1. #1

    Stuff I learned from Ben Stoeger

    To summarize, this is what I was doing wrong. On my presentation I tried to acquire the dot quickly, drive the dot to the target, grip the bejesus out of the pistol to minimize dot movement in recoil, help that further with post ignition push, then drive the dot to the next target and repeat the process, using strength to attempt to minimize dot movement.

    This is how I changed. While I clamp hard with my support hand, I way backed off with strong hand grip. I look exactly at my aiming point on the target. I bring the dot to that spot on the target and fire the shot. I let recoil happen, then I use my peripheral vision to guide the dot back to my spot on the target. I shoot the streak of the dot returning into the scoring area. Then I snap my eyes to the next target spot, and when the dot reaches the spot, I fire the shot. Let recoil happen, and let peripheral vision bring the dot back to the aiming point. Repeat.

    Instead of trying to minimize dot movement, I am embracing the streak. My grip is focused on making the dot return predictably and not minimizing dot movement. My split speed is faster because my trigger finger is less tense and I am shooting earlier. My accuracy is better because I am laser focused on my aiming point, and I can call my shots easier because I am focused on the target not the moving dot. Shooting on the move is also far easier with a complete target focus. After a practice session, I am so much less tired mentally and physically. It is fun.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  2. #2
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    Cool stuff. So now you're essentially using the dot more like irons in the sense of the gun and sights following your vision to targets vs tracking together. Did I follow that correctly?


    How did Ben catch that without looking through your eyes??? Amazing.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  3. #3
    How does what you learned from Stoeger compare/contrast with TPC?
    David S.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by David S. View Post
    How does what you learned from Stoeger compare/contrast with TPC?
    Their recoil management concepts are very similar, best summarized by TPC's "let recoil happen". Staying heavily target focused, both irons and dot, is uniquely Ben's teaching. TPC doesn't teach this, neither in basic nor advanced handgun mastery classes.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  5. #5
    Ben captures a lot of details when watching people, really great at it. Doing video training with him or video'ing yourself and playing in slow motion is really valuable for training. Over gripping with the strong hand shows up pretty clearly on video in a few different forms. It is something I recommend for everyone, really sheds light on a lot of things that are truly happening for you to then use to work specific drills to get better. His experience coaching really helps a lot of people.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by David S. View Post
    How does what you learned from Stoeger compare/contrast with TPC?
    It is completely different. TPC has a structured program, covering all aspects of your shooting. They spend their time taking you through their system.

    Ben is not teaching you a system. He is looking at just you and figuring out what is holding you back.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter MGW's Avatar
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    May 2012
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    Kansas
    I’m curious how did you figure out how to stop the post ignition push? I’m not sure I would be able to do that on demand.
    “If you know the way broadly you will see it in everything." - Miyamoto Musashi

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MGW View Post
    I’m curious how did you figure out how to stop the post ignition push? I’m not sure I would be able to do that on demand.
    Listened to Ben — his argument for using vision is persuasive, and actually using vision is very intuitive, and thus easy to adopt.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Listened to Ben — his argument for using vision is persuasive, and actually using vision is very intuitive, and thus easy to adopt.
    In all fairness I think the rest of your training over the years can't hurt. I have been trying to do this (relax the strong hand, direct the gun in recoil and in transitions using my vision) since I've been seeing it on PSTG, and in video reviews Ben has specifically pointed it out as an issue I have. However my transitions are not quite at the level of precision where the dot consistently goes straight to where my vision is focused. Even with my vision properly directed I can still take an inefficient gun path or over swing. Lots of dry fire to do in my case.
    Last edited by Eyesquared; 07-29-2020 at 11:41 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by MGW View Post
    I’m curious how did you figure out how to stop the post ignition push? I’m not sure I would be able to do that on demand.
    For me the key has been telling myself to shoot only the pace of the sights, and somehow it works out. I noticed this after reviewing my match footage and seeing that I had less post ignition push in matches than I did in practice, and one of the main differences was that I was pushing to shoot a predetermined pace in practice, while I was shooting according to my sights in matches. I think individual psychology will give different people different results and you might have to experiment with different mental cues until you find a way of thinking that consistently works for you.

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