Proposed class: "Self Defense & the Law - Practical Applications"

[Mitchell, Esq.]

Talk to me about what you'd like to experience in a class called "Self Defense & the Law - Practical Applications".

At least 3 hours of class following my usual outline:

How self defense is viewed by the legal system;
Defining "reasonable";
Reasonable as part of Self Defense;
What is reasonable when it comes to using force?;
The two standards for the use of force:
#1 Ability/Opportunity/Intent
#2 Subjective-objective standard
Post Incident Statements – Why they can help you;
Post Incident Statements – Why they can hurt you;
Criminal Procedure – Your arrest, bail and the court process;
Plea bargains – The what & why of the deal;
Modifying a weapon – does it matter, and if so, how?;
Training – Friend or Foe?

Then the rest of the day as experience/example learning in which students would have had the lessons in the lecture on rules of engagement, and the aftermath - then have one or two people (instuctors, maybe students) interact as role players, with students as witness.

Some students will get to see the whole thing from start to finish (but won't know what is supposed to occur), and others get introduced at various times as witnesses (who may or may not be allowed to intervene) who will, after the scenario ends, give a statement to the 'responding officer'.

Those student witnesses who are permitted to intervene will have to justify any actions, if they acted, and others will just have to recount what they saw happen.

(Will it match the cameras, other statements or the descriptions of the participants? )

Not force on force evolutions, but observation excercises to have people issue spot things discussed in 3-D, real-time, under a little bit of stress.

The goals of this would be to be able to relate the lecture to an observed example, not just a "what if" situation. You heard the lecture, you saw/participated in scenarios, now put it togther and apply it to any training you have...and if you don't have any (most didn't) you can see why training helps.


What should be part of it?

Police interrogation post incident?
Contrasting the statements of various witnesses, and the camera recordings done from various positions?
Listening to the incident audio only as if it was a 911 tape to see how the police/prosecution is going to hear it?
Issue spotting for the class regarding retreat/no retreat & appropriateness of force used?
Difference between a good light v. low light scenario regarding observation and reactions?

I don't want to create a force on force class, I want a practical application of lecture topics from 1st hand student participation and review that makes the issues more easily understood.

Discuss.

[BaiHu]

Sounds good to me, but I have a few questions.

1. Will this class apply equally to people out of CT?
2. Will this cover the 'what ifs' of being pulled over while carrying, wrongful intrusions, etc?
3. Will you be able to attend this virtually via Skype or some other system?

I think that's it for my first salvo of questions.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

Sounds good to me, but I have a few questions.

1. Will this class apply equally to people out of CT? It can be...
2. Will this cover the 'what ifs' of being pulled over while carrying, wrongful intrusions, etc? Pulled over while carrying, no, as thats a relatively simple situation w/o much decission making required. Wrongful intrusions - please explain what you mean.
3. Will you be able to attend this virtually via Skype or some other system? lecture, yes. scenarios...likely not.

I think that's it for my first salvo of questions.

Me in bold.

[BaiHu]

Wrongful intrusions such as police entering your home forcefully or otherwise and how to handle that situation. Similar to the marine who had his home busted into at night and was killed-maybe in AZ?



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[Mitchell, Esq.]

Wrongful intrusions such as police entering your home forcefully or otherwise and how to handle that situation. Similar to the marine who had his home busted into at night and was killed-maybe in AZ?



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Wrong class. That would be "Living with a gun & Constitutional Law for police encounters"

This is for self defense situations. The outline I emailed you, plus situations in which it comes to life.

[BaiHu]

Ah, okay.

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[NETim]

I'd like to know how to define "reasonable." For instance, over and over again I'm told gun control schemes like assault rifle bans are "reasonable" yet in light of our experience with Prohibition and the War on Drugs, I can't quite bring myself to regard such legislation as "reasonable."

So anyways, how would such a class be administered?

[nalesq]

How about some discussion of differences between how different jurisdictions may treat the same fact pattern differently due to differences in law and prosecutorial culture?

[Mitchell, Esq.]

I'd like to know how to define "reasonable." For instance, over and over again I'm told gun control schemes like assault rifle bans are "reasonable" yet in light of our experience with Prohibition and the War on Drugs, I can't quite bring myself to regard such legislation as "reasonable."

So anyways, how would such a class be administered?

Reasonable is defined in law and court cases, not in the gun control community lexicon.

I think the class would be administered as lecture/Q&A, then a scenario in which people in the class play various parts (participant, witness who is permitted but not obligated to intervene, witness who comes in towards the middle without any clue what they are actually seeing - just observing...) or observe the whole thing, then a debrief after each in which the class gets to see the various camera angles of the action, hear the witness statements and any statements made by the participants describing what they saw/felt/believed - then another scenario with the same post incident review/debrief.

Some people will have seen it all.
Others will think they have seen it all.
The camera will catch part of it...

We will sort it out afterwards for people to learn from...then do it again.

At least, that's the idea for now.

[David Armstrong]

Something that I do in my Issues in Self Defense class is set up a scenario in a room then have various witnesses come by and stand in the door for various time frames, then go "report to the police" what is happening. It is good in that it allows them to actually see how various parts of the scene may not reflect the whole thing, how different people interpret the same thing, how pieces of the event may seem contradictory, etc.