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Thread: What do you like or hate about (insert brand)'s AR?

  1. #81
    Member Alembic's Avatar
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    Since this thread hit a speed bump w/ the stupid rail length argument, paused at some weird comment asking Clusterfrack if he has ever taken a class. Then turned left at the Primary and Secondary discussion; I'll continue it's wayward course and ask, what's the consensus on Lightfighter these days?
    "If you like the moon landing, the interstate highway system or plan on cashing a social security check, you are a progressive."

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    I have no idea as to whether or not it will become a commercial model, but one item Colt was producing for contract during its commercial hiatus is a 6920 with a Geissele rail, MBUS Pro sights, and a CTR stock. A local Colt LE distributor has some of the overruns.
    Those were contract over runs of the latest iteration the FBI's Personally Owned Weapon (POW) program. The prior iteration had a Troy Alpha rail, troy sights and a standard M-4 stock. The rail, stock and sights on the 16" guns were changed to mirror the issued 11.5" guns. It's a nice set up. Optics options are the same SIG / Aimpoint options as the issued guns.

    Prior POW carbines can be retrofitted with the new rail, stock and sights as well as Geissele SSA triggers.

    Whether or not more of these are seen as over runs depends on whether or not they continue with Colt as a the POW vendor.

  3. #83
    Site Supporter Cool Breeze's Avatar
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    I put together some additional information if anyone else is interested. I believe it is accurate but not inclusive. Some manufacturers seem to point out that it distinguishes them. Some is just interesting to me.

    SOLGW and Triarc - 13.7ish Barrel option for shortest possible rifle with pinned muzzle device

    SOLGW and Triarc - A5 Buffer system options which require longer buffer tubes

    SOLGW - very interesting warranty

    SOLGW - Upper and lower serialized for tight fit with no rattle, Triarc says serialized but no mention of fit

    BCM, SOLGW, Colt, Centurion - all use Microbest bolts (considered excellent)

    Hodge, FN, SOLGW, Triarc - all have options for wedgelock rails. People seem to claim 7076 Hodge versions are super rigid. I am not sure if that translates to the 6000 series on non-Hodge guns. I have not researched other rails to see what else is considered rigid. Some claim Geissele but there has been reports of recent issues.

    Hodge, FN, Centurion - all use FN cold hammer forged barrels that are chrome lined. Centurionís midlength 16íí gas port of .080 is rather large, but you can get custom ordered gas port sizing from them (also keyed for gas blocks that are pinned).

    SOLGW - free rebarreling if you shoot it out, you can also send your own barrel to them if you want them to build a gun around it

    BCM - MK2 forged upper seems really interesting with reinforced areas as well as claims to help with gas blowback. May not allow certain rails to interface with them though if you donít like the MCMR

    Sionics - barrels made by Green Mountain, QC also includes Air-Gauged, Radiograph

    Triarc Barrels - as mentioned they seem to be really accurate but not CHF or CL. I also like their profile. I wish their were more straight contour or continuous taper barrels that were not considered lightweight, govít, or m4.

    Sionic, SOLGW, and Triarc - offer NP3 BCG options if you want that.

  4. #84
    Old man yelling at cloud OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cool Breeze View Post
    Hodge, FN, SOLGW, Triarc - all have options for wedgelock rails. People seem to claim 7076 Hodge versions are super rigid. I am not sure if that translates to the 6000 series on non-Hodge guns. I have not researched other rails to see what else is considered rigid. Some claim Geissele but there has been reports of recent issues.
    The modulus of elasticity of 7075 is only about 4 percent greater than 6061.
    .
    -----------------------------------------
    Not another dime.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Cool Breeze View Post
    Hodge, FN, SOLGW, Triarc - all have options for wedgelock rails. People seem to claim 7076 Hodge versions are super rigid. I am not sure if that translates to the 6000 series on non-Hodge guns. I have not researched other rails to see what else is considered rigid. Some claim Geissele but there has been reports of recent issues.
    The rigidity is much more a function of the barrel nut design, rather than the use of 7075. Zev actually stopped productiong 7075 WedgeLocks to sell under their own name, claiming that 6061 was a more durable choice than 7075, as while 7075 has much higher strength, it is also more brittle, which I find to be disingenuous, as the pricing stayed about the same, and it is my understanding that 6061 is much easier to extrude and machine, but there are definitely decent arguments that 6061 is not really inferior to 7075 when it comes to handguard use.

    Geissele's older models seem to work fine, it is the new thinner handguards that have issues, and it seems it's more due to tolerance issues (so much for super precision), as the combination of a loose fit between the handguard and barrel nut, combined with a softer aluminum barrel nut rather than a typical steel one, means that deformation is much more likely, thus causing drop test issues.

    Honestly, I think deflection under load is an overrated issue for folks that aren't using MFALs; as long as it's not a permanent POI shift (as what is happening with the URG-I MK16 handguards in drop tests), does it really matter, when the RDS it the primary sighting system?

  6. #86
    Old man yelling at cloud OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Default.mp3 View Post
    The rigidity is much more a function of the barrel nut design, rather than the use of 7075. Zev actually stopped productiong 7075 WedgeLocks to sell under their own name, claiming that 6061 was a more durable choice than 7075, as while 7075 has much higher strength, it is also more brittle, which I find to be disingenuous, as the pricing stayed about the same, and it is my understanding that 6061 is much easier to extrude and machine, but there are definitely decent arguments that 6061 is not really inferior to 7075 when it comes to handguard use.

    Geissele's older models seem to work fine, it is the new thinner handguards that have issues, and it seems it's more due to tolerance issues (so much for super precision), as the combination of a loose fit between the handguard and barrel nut, combined with a softer aluminum barrel nut rather than a typical steel one, means that deformation is much more likely, thus causing drop test issues.

    Honestly, I think deflection under load is an overrated issue for folks that aren't using MFALs; as long as it's not a permanent POI shift (as what is happening with the URG-I MK16 handguards in drop tests), does it really matter, when the RDS it the primary sighting system?
    Permanent POI shift is caused by either the retention on the barrel nut being disrupted or plastic deformation of the metal (or a combination of the two). Plastic deformation is where 7075 substantially outshines 6061, as the yield stress is considerably higher. However, if that is exploited to make the 7075 part significantly lighter by using less material, it will lose stiffness and therefore have greater deflection for a given force applied within the elastic (non-permanent) range.
    .
    -----------------------------------------
    Not another dime.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Alembic View Post
    Since this thread hit a speed bump w/ the stupid rail length argument, paused at some weird comment asking Clusterfrack if he has ever taken a class. Then turned left at the Primary and Secondary discussion; I'll continue it's wayward course and ask, what's the consensus on Lightfighter these days?
    It's only weird if you have no M4C experience in the 2006-2012 timeframe.

    To answer your question, like the other forums mentioned, the best years of LF are behind it.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Cool Breeze View Post
    I put together some additional information if anyone else is interested. I believe it is accurate but not inclusive. Some manufacturers seem to point out that it distinguishes them. Some is just interesting to me.

    SOLGW and Triarc - 13.7ish Barrel option for shortest possible rifle with pinned muzzle device

    SOLGW and Triarc - A5 Buffer system options which require longer buffer tubes

    SOLGW - very interesting warranty

    SOLGW - Upper and lower serialized for tight fit with no rattle, Triarc says serialized but no mention of fit

    BCM, SOLGW, Colt, Centurion - all use Microbest bolts (considered excellent)

    Hodge, FN, SOLGW, Triarc - all have options for wedgelock rails. People seem to claim 7076 Hodge versions are super rigid. I am not sure if that translates to the 6000 series on non-Hodge guns. I have not researched other rails to see what else is considered rigid. Some claim Geissele but there has been reports of recent issues.

    Hodge, FN, Centurion - all use FN cold hammer forged barrels that are chrome lined. Centurionís midlength 16íí gas port of .080 is rather large, but you can get custom ordered gas port sizing from them (also keyed for gas blocks that are pinned).

    SOLGW - free rebarreling if you shoot it out, you can also send your own barrel to them if you want them to build a gun around it

    BCM - MK2 forged upper seems really interesting with reinforced areas as well as claims to help with gas blowback. May not allow certain rails to interface with them though if you donít like the MCMR

    Sionics - barrels made by Green Mountain, QC also includes Air-Gauged, Radiograph

    Triarc Barrels - as mentioned they seem to be really accurate but not CHF or CL. I also like their profile. I wish their were more straight contour or continuous taper barrels that were not considered lightweight, govít, or m4.

    Sionic, SOLGW, and Triarc - offer NP3 BCG options if you want that.
    ^ Good stuff - thanks for that list.

    FYI - Sionics bolts are Microbest.

  9. #89
    Where and does PSA fit in with this discussion? I ask because it seems to be the acceptable 300blk out PDW upper in place of the rattler or MCX?

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Not HighSpeed View Post
    Where and does PSA fit in with this discussion? I ask because it seems to be the acceptable 300blk out PDW upper in place of the rattler or MCX?
    PSA rifles seem to be very hit or miss. Either it will fail miserably inside the first 500 rounds, or it will be a reliable beater. If the gun is for personal protection, there are better choices.

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