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Thread: Ben Stoeger, Skills and Drills

  1. #1

    Ben Stoeger, Skills and Drills

    My wife and I just finished up with this class with Ben. It was our first Stoeger class, and we came to it with a number of impressions about Ben, based on his many years of top level shooting performance, speaking with others who have trained with him, and his social media presence.

    Let me say right off, that you should not attend a Stoeger class if you are looking for pins, kudos or contagious enthusiasm for shooting. When you screw up, Ben tells you that succinctly, generally with “that sucked.” When you do well, you might get a “that was OK,” or “you are better at this aspect of shooting than X.” If other instructors would take your temperature orally or with a no touch wand, Ben does it rectally. Of course the benefit of this approach, is it removes ambiguity.

    What surprised me, is I learned more about shooting a red dot in these two days, than I have collectively from all the classes I have taken. Ben has been shooting Carry Optics lately, along with Production, and it really shows.

    Ben’s approach is based on vision, and specifically being completely target focused. It starts with looking at a exact spot on the target, and making the dot come to that spot. When I asked him about how to know whether you are target focused as opposed to dot focused, he said to cover the lens of your optic with tape, and shoot everything that way for a while. His approach to recoil control is not post ignition push, but to let recoil happen, look at your aiming spot and let your eyes bring the dot back to the target. Transitions, he always leads with his eyes. You can sum up his approach as look at where you want to hit, and let your body bring the dot to your aiming point. This is very different than acquiring the dot early and driving the dot around the targets. Interestingly, he shoots his iron sight Production gun the same way — completely target focused.

    Ben is obviously a very smart guy, with a complex personality. He is also an amazing diagnostician. If you are willing to check your ego, and open your mind, you will learn a lot. Ben says you really don’t get better in a two day class. What the class does is diagnose where you are, and give you the tools to do the work on your own and improve. He zeroed in on three issues holding me back, that I had been struggling with, without a clear plan of how to fix them, and gave me a way to address these in dry and live fire.

    Ben demoed everything he had us do. We had a stage set up through class, that we would periodically return to. Here is Ben demoing it.

    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Ben’s approach is based on vision, and specifically being completely target focused. It starts with looking at a exact spot on the target, and making the dot come to that spot.



    So after the class, how do you feel about the circle only reticle vs the dot for these purposes? One better or worse? Same? Does it matter?

  3. #3
    Member Xhado's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Helotes, TX
    I took a Class with Ben & Hwansik back in February.

    Everything you said I agree with.

    "There is never a situation where you EVER want to do that again"

    -Ben Stoeger on my stage execution.

  4. #4
    Per the course description,
    I also strongly recommend that you have done a Fundamentals class before moving on to this one.
    Is he referring to his "flagship" Practical Shooting Fundamentals class, or any decent shooting fundamentals class?
    David S.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by David S. View Post
    Per the course description,


    Is he referring to his "flagship" Practical Shooting Fundamentals class, or any decent shooting fundamentals class?
    His own. His focus on avoiding excessive tension and target focused shooting is unique to him, to the best of my knowledge. Some of recoil-dealing concepts maybe are parallel with the TPC but not too many others.

    That said, I don't think it is really necessary, good shooters will derive the full benefit of this class regardless.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    His own. His focus on avoiding excessive tension and target focused shooting is unique to him, to the best of my knowledge. Some of recoil-dealing concepts maybe are parallel with the TPC but not too many others.

    That said, I don't think it is really necessary, good shooters will derive the full benefit of this class regardless.
    Interesting. KR Training is hosting Ben for S&D, followed by Fundamentals next year. It’s kinda strange that they would run them out of the normal progression.

    I’m more interested in the technical shooting aspects than the gamer aspects.
    David S.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by David S. View Post
    Interesting. KR Training is hosting Ben for S&D, followed by Fundamentals next year. It’s kinda strange that they would run them out of the normal progression.

    I’m more interested in the technical shooting aspects than the gamer aspects.
    That's not an uncommon sequence. I did it that way, and there was no overlap between student groups. Except for me. In addition I had a choice of doing it either way, and the host suggested skills before fundamentals. Skills is a physical class, you really wanna take it fresh.

    As far as technical vs gaming, the distinction is blurred, IMO. You shoot a stage during both classes. Fundamentals is really the fundamentals, skills is a lot more movement, in and out, across, multiple positions sprints. Definitely more transitions. Sounds more gamey but really is fundamentals challenged in more dynamic fashion. Maybe others can share their take on this. @GJM.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by David S. View Post
    Interesting. KR Training is hosting Ben for S&D, followed by Fundamentals next year. It’s kinda strange that they would run them out of the normal progression.
    BEnos Forum. Fundamentals appears to be what I'm looking for.
    David S.

  9. #9
    Hammertime
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Desert Southwest
    Thanks. Sorry I missed this thread til now.

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