Optic help!

[Wake27]

The Gen IIs aren’t being discounted. The Gen ii and Gen iii are different scopes for different purposes. The Gen iii does seem to be very versatile though.

He said discounted, I did the same thing at first.

[pew_pew]

He said discounted, I did the same thing at first.

Yea I understood it as discounted. But they aren’t. The Gen II Es are still normal priced from everything I’m seeing. Makes sense because they aren’t going anywhere. The Gen ii and iii will stay in the lineups for different purposes.

[Wake27]

Yea I understood it as discounted. But they aren’t. The Gen II Es are still normal priced from everything I’m seeing. Makes sense because they aren’t going anywhere. The Gen ii and iii will stay in the lineups for different purposes.

Shit I thought you said discontinued. I suck at reading comprehension right now.


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[OlongJohnson]

I've just read all three reticle manuals for the Razor II-E. I'm no expert, but this is my takeaway. (First two are universally applicable, third is Razor specific.)

MRAD - relatively easy to do the math so you can use it for ranging, but you have to change from thinking in MOA to thinking in MRAD. If you have other rifles with other scopes that work in MOA (even duplex reticles with MOA adjustments), this requires you to be bilingual and carries built-in opportunity for confusing oneself. Probably the most powerful tool if you are willing and able to commit to it.

MOA - can still use it for ranging, but the math is less elegant. Or if you're OK being off by 4.7%, you can simplify it quite a bit. You can think in MOA for this and for all your other scopes that are adjusted in MOA and may have MOA-based reticles. More likely to be compatible with your other stuff if you have a variety of equipment.

JM-1 - designed for shooting as quickly as possible at ranges identified using other means (like a rangefinder). Hash marks are customized to the ballistics of specific bullets at a specific MV range (typical ARs). Minimal (almost no) support of windage compensation via the reticle. Simplicated and streamlined, customized for a specific role. Probably the best if that's what you intend to do with it, but ultimately less versatile/universal than the others.

Is that a reasonable summary?

[Wake27]

I've just read all three reticle manuals for the Razor II-E. I'm no expert, but this is my takeaway. (First two are universally applicable, third is Razor specific.)

MRAD - relatively easy to do the math so you can use it for ranging, but you have to change from thinking in MOA to thinking in MRAD. If you have other rifles with other scopes that work in MOA (even duplex reticles with MOA adjustments), this requires you to be bilingual and carries built-in opportunity for confusing oneself. Probably the most powerful tool if you are willing and able to commit to it.

MOA - can still use it for ranging, but the math is less elegant. Or if you're OK being off by 4.7%, you can simplify it quite a bit. You can think in MOA for this and for all your other scopes that are adjusted in MOA and may have MOA-based reticles. More likely to be compatible with your other stuff if you have a variety of equipment.

JM-1 - designed for shooting as quickly as possible at ranges identified using other means (like a rangefinder). Hash marks are customized to the ballistics of specific bullets at a specific MV range (typical ARs). Minimal (almost no) support of windage compensation via the reticle. Simplicated and streamlined, customized for a specific role. Probably the best if that's what you intend to do with it, but ultimately less versatile/universal than the others.

Is that a reasonable summary?

I think so, but it’s worth noting that the JM-1 is an MOA reticle so it shares that benefit of commonality with pretty much every red dot but also that MILs is the universal language for long range shooters so if you choose MOA or JM-1, you’ll be speaking a different language if you ever work with anyone else.


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[pew_pew]

I think so, but it’s worth noting that the JM-1 is an MOA reticle so it shares that benefit of commonality with pretty much every red dot but also that MILs is the universal language for long range shooters so if you choose MOA or JM-1, you’ll be speaking a different language if you ever work with anyone else.


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This is true but the Gen II isn’t a long range scope either. At least not the 1-6. There’s pros and cons to them all I guess though so sometimes it takes some trial and error to see what you like.

[SteveB]

I just purchase a 11.5 Geissele AR and I’m going to put a 1-6 LPVO on it. Every other AR I own has a red dot but I have a stigmatism and would like to have something I could grab in a hurry if need be and utilize without my glasses. It will be a home defense, plinking, training, hunting gun. I’ve narrowed it down to either-
Leupold MK-6
Kahles K16i
Night Force ATACR
I would truly appreciate advice on which of the 3 you would purchase as I don’t have a lot knowledge with LPVO’s thanks in advance for any and all input.

God Bless,
Rick

What kind of hunting are you planning to do with an 11.5” 5.56? If I had to choose from the 3 scopes you listed, I’d go with the Kahles. Of course, if you’re going to spend Kahles money, you could also consider Swarovski. Once you reach that price point, you’re going to get great build quality, superb glass and lighter weight. The choice becomes largely about reticle selection, which is determined by how you’re going to use the rifle. I’ve used Vortex, NF, Leupold, Kahles and Swarovski 1-6 scopes for 3-gun and hunting a variety of animals over different terrain and conditions. My favorite LPVO is the Swarovski Z6i or Z8i with the BRT reticle. Swarovski has an online ballistic calculator that allows you to enter your load and get drops for your reticle. I’ve found it to be reliable. If you don’t need a ballistic reticle, the 4A is uncluttered and the dot is bright and crisp. For 3-gun, where you need to make quick shots on targets at various ranges, the ballistic reticle is terrific. For me, hunting with an LPVO has always been inside 200, so no drops necessary. Pig hunting in south Florida involves shooting moving targets low to the ground, moving in and out of brush through varying light. The Swaros can’t be beat for FOV, clarity, brightness, dot quality.

[Paladin]

What kind of hunting are you planning to do with an 11.5” 5.56? If I had to choose from the 3 scopes you listed, I’d go with the Kahles. Of course, if you’re going to spend Kahles money, you could also consider Swarovski. Once you reach that price point, you’re going to get great build quality, superb glass and lighter weight. The choice becomes largely about reticle selection, which is determined by how you’re going to use the rifle. I’ve used Vortex, NF, Leupold, Kahles and Swarovski 1-6 scopes for 3-gun and hunting a variety of animals over different terrain and conditions. My favorite LPVO is the Swarovski Z6i or Z8i with the BRT reticle. Swarovski has an online ballistic calculator that allows you to enter your load and get drops for your reticle. I’ve found it to be reliable. If you don’t need a ballistic reticle, the 4A is uncluttered and the dot is bright and crisp. For 3-gun, where you need to make quick shots on targets at various ranges, the ballistic reticle is terrific. For me, hunting with an LPVO has always been inside 200, so no drops necessary. Pig hunting in south Florida involves shooting moving targets low to the ground, moving in and out of brush through varying light. The Swaros can’t be beat for FOV, clarity, brightness, dot quality.

Thanks for your response! What makes Swarovski better than the Kahles in your opinion as I think I’ve narrowed it down to one of the 2.
Thanks again,
Rick

[SteveB]

Thanks for your response! What makes Swarovski better than the Kahles in your opinion as I think I’ve narrowed it down to one of the 2.
Thanks again,
Rick

It’s the reticle for me. Most of my rifle shooting these days is hunting or hunting prep. My Kahles reticle is the SM-1, great for most things, but I prefer the less cluttered Swaro reticle for hunting. You can’t go wrong with either scope.

[Wake27]

If those things are still going for like $2k, you can find razor 1-10s for the same price...


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