Militarization of Police Appearance

[Wake27]

I know there are a lot of other threads that touch on this, but I've been involved in a debate on it so now I'm curious what everyone here thinks of the current argument that police uniforms are too close to the military. I see a lot of people (including maybe SECDEF, I didn't actually read it) saying that LE wearing Multicam causes civilians to think that those personnel are active military and that erodes trust in the military. I just don't see how its a real issue. I would want officers/agents wearing some type of placard on a vest IDing them as Fed LE, Sheriff, etc, but personally I'm not concerned about the majority of Americans (the good ones that don't make up the news) losing trust in the military because they don't know how to tell the difference between LE and MIL when there are guys in Multicam on the street breaking up protests.

I'm curious what all of you think, especially the LE here because I've seen a few people say that its not doing any favors for the police.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

There is a nuance to this debate. I'm laying out the argument. If you wear military appearing gear it accentuates your separation from the populace and:

1. Makes you feel less sympathetic to them.
2. Makes you act more aggressively (fill in a bunch of aggression theories).

If this is empirically true in the real world - that's a question. Some lab stuff with the usual caveats suggests such.

FYI, folks - all the priming of aggression studies are very controversial.

This is separate from the OP questions, just though I'd add it. There were similar complaints about ARs being to military in appearance, leading to Mini-14s, pump Remington 223s and the early Ruger and Beretta PCCs being adopted as some city councils didn't like military guns.

[HCM]

I know there are a lot of other threads that touch on this, but I've been involved in a debate on it so now I'm curious what everyone here thinks of the current argument that police uniforms are too close to the military. I see a lot of people (including maybe SECDEF, I didn't actually read it) saying that LE wearing Multicam causes civilians to think that those personnel are active military and that erodes trust in the military. I just don't see how its a real issue. I would want officers/agents wearing some type of placard on a vest IDing them as Fed LE, Sheriff, etc, but personally I'm not concerned about the majority of Americans (the good ones that don't make up the news) losing trust in the military because they don't know how to tell the difference between LE and MIL when there are guys in Multicam on the street breaking up protests.

I'm curious what all of you think, especially the LE here because I've seen a few people say that its not doing any favors for the police.

First the military doesn’t wear Multicam. They stole Crye’s intellectual property by adopting the “multicam knock off” called “OCP Scorpion.”

All the LEOs in Portland are wearing placards identifying them as either police or by their agency. They are “subdued” placards usually black on OD or MC, which is only logical wearing OD or genuine multi cam. They are also all members of special tactical teams, USMS SOG, BORTAC, ICE SRT etc

Riot control outside a jail/prison context is a rare collateral duty for these teams. As prior Sec Def said you go to war with what you have not what you want. That means the uniforms and placards which match their primary duties.

BORTAC in particular operates primarily in rural, brush and scrub country which best matches .... genuine Multicam.

That addresses the SecDef’s comments.

That commie loving Cunt Gen Miley is not even worth a response.

[TCB]

As was just said, BORTAC wears MC, it works good in the environment they primarily operate in, that’s their regular every day uniform...should they go out and spend a shit ton of taxpayer money for different outfits when they assist other Agencies? Crye Precision, Arcteryx and other high end FIRE RETARDANT uniforms that are currently being issued are not cheap (that’s what they are issued...in MC), seems like a crazy amount of $ to spend to make them “match” the locals. But if anyone thinks that’s a good idea please, wright your Congressman to increase the budget for all Federal LE to have multiple changes of uniforms for when they may or may not be deployed to whatever incident they happen to be deployed to...yea, sounds like a great idea.

[Wake27]

First the military doesn’t wear Multicam. They stole Crye’s intellectual property by adopting the “multicam knock off” called “OCP Scorpion.”

That commie loving Cunt Gen Miley is not even worth a response.

Yes and no. The two are so close that they might as well be the same thing for these purposes. I’m well aware of the fact and still won’t notice unless I’m looking for it. Plus there’s still a lot of MC floating around. All SOF have it, plus tons of people that deployed to AFG before OCP was adopted and was issued OEF-CP (legit Multicam), and any piece of aftermarket anything that I’m aware of. All of that still adds up to less than half of what the army is wearing, but it’s not like there isn’t lots of genuine Multicam floating around too.

And off topic but I’m curious what you mean by commie lover.


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[wvincent]

Why does it matter what they are wearing?
I haven't seen a single Fed on the live feeds I couldn't tell was LE.
Honestly, SOG or BORTAC could come out that door all wearing purple Barney suits, and all the pearl clutching libs would still be all screechy, screechy, "that's so intimidating!!!"

I've worn a multitude of uniforms in my life, and it never changed my perception of who I was and what my duties entailed.
They are just utility uniforms. What do people want? Everyone showing up in class A's and glossy oxfords?

It's just another deflection of the actual truth of the situation.

[Wake27]

Why does it matter what they are wearing?
I haven't seen a single Fed on the live feeds I couldn't tell was LE.
Honestly, SOG or BORTAC could come out that door all wearing purple Barney suits, and all the pearl clutching libs would still be all screechy, screechy, "that's so intimidating!!!"

I've worn a multitude of uniforms in my life, and it never changed my perception of who I was and what my duties entailed.
They are just utility uniforms. What do people want? Everyone showing up in class A's and glossy oxfords?

It's just another deflection of the actual truth of the situation.

I actually think it’s one more way to turn people against LE, especially the military and conservatives that typically side with them. But I have a pretty singular perspective so I was curious what others think.


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[FNFAN]

As was just said, BORTAC wears MC, it works good in the environment they primarily operate in, that’s their regular every day uniform...should they go out and spend a shit ton of taxpayer money for different outfits when they assist other Agencies? Crye Precision, Arcteryx and other high end FIRE RETARDANT uniforms that are currently being issued are not cheap (that’s what they are issued...in MC), seems like a crazy amount of $ to spend to make them “match” the locals. But if anyone thinks that’s a good idea please, wright your Congressman to increase the budget for all Federal LE to have multiple changes of uniforms for when they may or may not be deployed to whatever incident they happen to be deployed to...yea, sounds like a great idea.

Well.... the "local's" don't even show up, so there's that. (Said in the It's Jake at State Farm voice) That's their uniform for work. If the locals don't like it they can resolve the issues that brought them there and I'm sure all the Fed's would be happy to be off their TDY and back with their loved ones and in their own a familiar bed.

[HCM]

I'm sure all the Fed's would be happy to be off their TDY and back with their loved ones and in their own bed.

Let’s not get crazy.

[vcdgrips]

Any uniform issues can be solved by some of the more high viz POLICE patches.

The DHS presser was quite informative.

As others have said, BORTAC’s standard issue is the MC/OCP.

The conflagration of Portland and other ongoing/long standing Federal efforts and Operation LeGend is infuriating as many who are doing so should or in fact, know better.