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Thread: Federal officers in Portland may have been permanently blinded by lasers

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRB View Post
    Not my lane, but how do less-lethal measures like bean bag rounds or rubber 12ga figure into this?
    Seems that an ROE authorizing the use of such against the users of lasers would be a much easier sell vs going lethal. But would that open a Pandora's box of less lethal vs GBH, which is already enough of a problem, it seems?
    Limited reach

  2. #172
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    Limited reach and less accuracy than a 5.56 round. If Joe Idiot were standing by himself trying to blind cops in the station parking lot, various less-lethal options would likely work (to include running over and snapping the Peerless on his wrists).

    In a crowd of "mostly peaceful" protesters, it's more difficult. As noted, less lethal options have limited range. As range does expand, accuracy decreases. Umbrellas or protest signs (as well as protesters) may be used to block a deployment. Most less lethal options that I can think of off hand (other than the LRAD) can be degraded even by something like an umbrella.

  3. #173
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    Jeff Cooper’s idea to use a suppressed.22lr with match ammo seems applicable. Just put one through a lung and collect them from the hospital. Of course this would be best with very clear video evidence but the left would still scream “Murder!”

  4. #174
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    We know Jeff's rules. Can you be sure that shooting into a crowd will hit your target? Sounds good but will it work and what would be the outcome in terms of public response?

    You have to think about those things. To make this difficult, a laser user can stand covered by an umbrella or an innocent.

    Why not infiltrate the group and have folks ready to grab such users? Don't have to be identified as law. Just grab the guy and say stop that.

    Killing some kid with a laser, might not go over well. I know some folks won't care but there is a greater problem than just the local one. Win the tactical battle, lose the strategic war.

  5. #175
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post
    Killing some kid with a laser, might not go over well. I know some folks won't care but there is a greater problem than just the local one. Win the tactical battle, lose the strategic war.
    Especially if the media is not on your side. They can present it as some young kid (insert cute old photo here) out having some socially conscious hi-jinx, who was cruelly shot down by Trump's stormtroopers and killed in the prime of his life- you know how it goes.
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
    "I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI

  6. #176
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    Said it a zillion times here. Create an atrocity to turn the populace against the police and government. Classic tactics. Some folks never get it. Lose the populace and you get dress up in all the tac gear you want, you still lose in the long run unless you go completely totalitarian.

  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post
    . . . Killing some kid with a laser, might not go over well. I know some folks won't care but there is a greater problem than just the local one. Win the tactical battle, lose the strategic war.
    Tis kind of crap pisses me off so much that my mind tends to go to (were it possible) "vaporize" instead of kill . . . these shitheels don't even deserve to be as much as a dot of refuse on the sidewalk . . . remove all traces!


    </rant off>

  8. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    Exactly my thought. Knock the dog shit out of the lot of them and let them decide how much more they want a helping of.

    Take the damn cuffs off L.E. and let them get to work. This one way street goes nowhere.
    We have had one current federal LE member forum mention that communications between rioters involve discussions of creating martyrs who can be held up as victims of police brutality.

    They WANT cops to knock the dog shit of them, blues.

    That's the goal. At least if it's on camera. Deaths are even better than mere injury.
    REPETITION CREATES BELIEF
    REPETITION BUILDS THE SEPARATE WORLDS WE LIVE AND DIE IN
    NO EXCEPTIONS

  9. #179
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baldanders View Post
    We have had one current federal LE member forum mention that communications between rioters involve discussions of creating martyrs who can be held up as victims of police brutality.

    They WANT cops to knock the dog shit of them, blues.

    That's the goal. At least if it's on camera. Deaths are even better than mere injury.
    This is nothing new, and not a revelation. Straight out of the playbook that's been used for decades by groups around the globe.

    What you don't seem to understand is that it's not a matter of just going out and doing it without a legal basis for taking the action. Using physical force is justifiable under many circumstances, which I won't bother to enumerate. They can edit all the videos they want, as long as the unedited video shows reality and legal action.

    So please, stop trying to lecture me about matters that I am intimately aware of...including use of force, the tactics of subversive groups etc. Unless you have some particular expertise to share that I may not have come across during my years when I actually investigated them, among other matters.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  10. #180
    Member Baldanders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    This is nothing new, and not a revelation. Straight out of the playbook that's been used for decades by groups around the globe.

    What you don't seem to understand is that it's not a matter of just going out and doing it without a legal basis for taking the action. Using physical force is justifiable under many circumstances, which I won't bother to enumerate. They can edit all the videos they want, as long as the unedited video shows reality and legal action.

    So please, stop trying to lecture me about matters that I am intimately aware of...including use of force, the tactics of subversive groups etc. Unless you have some particular expertise to share that I may not have come across during my years when I actually investigated them, among other matters.
    You stated "knock the dog shit out of them" was some sort of solution to this problem. As if it would stop the current riots. And rioters trying to injure/provoke cops.

    I merely pointed out that won't stop anything. Because that is the goal. Get enough cops "kicking the dog shit out of them" videos on YouTube and the reality of the provocation doesn't matter. The legality of what cop and rioter do won't matter. The rioters and their supporters could give two shits if what cops do is legally justified. Or morally justified. And much of the American public utterly despises LE, and is willing to buy any "LE are a bunch of Nazis" narrative. And they will never listen to the reasons why a short clip may be misleading.

    I wasn't trying to paint you as a fool, sir. Just pointing out that your stated solution won't work. It will merely encourage more provocations, because they will be proven to work. A judge or jury siding with LE in any given situation will just be "see, the system is rigged." Because the goal is "proving cops are thugs taking orders from thugs." Not showing rioters control the streets. I would hope the stances I have taken in discussion here for the past few years would show that I am not anti-LE.

    Even experts can be 100% wrong in their analysis of topics they are experts on.
    REPETITION CREATES BELIEF
    REPETITION BUILDS THE SEPARATE WORLDS WE LIVE AND DIE IN
    NO EXCEPTIONS

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