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Thread: Some (silly?) questions on bullet performance...

  1. #1

    Some (silly?) questions on bullet performance...

    So I've recently been on a quest for some less expensive "do it all" bullets for the various cartridges I reload for, 9mm, .45 ACP, and .223/5.56. I do carry either a 9mm or a .45, and the .223 is a Ruger Mini 14 that's primarily a range toy, but could also be called on for HD. What I'm looking for is a bullet that I can use at the range, as well as being viable for HD/SD, and for now, let's set aside the arguments against reloading SD ammo. My current primary loads are:

    9mm, 124 gr. RMR "Match Winner" TC FMJ
    .45 ACP, 225 gr. coated lead TC, either Missouri Bullet Co. or Bayou Bullets
    .223, 62 gr. bonded (?) SPBT, over-run purchase from RMR (no longer available)

    Currently, all HD handgun ammo is either hollow point or some weird boutique design that I don't expect will be around long . And the educated selection of ammo is generally based on FBI tests of penetration and expansion, with the "best" falling into a specific range. Seems pretty much anything else is consigned to either range or competition use.

    So silly question number one, does the lack of a hollow point automatically disqualify a bullet for HD/SD? And if so, why?

    And silly question number two, what about bullet shape? I have no way of testing it myself, but I've read that a flat point bullet is better at transferring energy than a round nose. This makes sense logically, but I've long since learned that logic doesn't always apply to firearms.

    I've selected the bullets I'm currently using because they're inexpensive, and they work well in my guns. I enjoy reloading, but not all the testing. My range trips can be few and far between at times, so just figuring out one new load can take weeks or longer, and that leaves me no time for just enjoying shooting. I also tend to keep all mags loaded with whatever SD ammo I'm using at the time, which means I have to unload and reload for range trips. Not a big deal if I'm only shooting one, but I usually take several guns with me, and that eats into what limited time I have. And yes, it would make sense to do that the night before, but I don't always get to plan ahead, more often than not, it tends to be spur of the moment.

    My goal is to find one inexpensive bullet, figure out a good enough load, and stick with it. This is partly to save money, but also an attempt to simplify my life, I have enough other complications that I have to deal with on a daily basis . Of course, this quest is currently complicated by the near total lack of component availability, I got lucky and scored a brick of small pistol primers last week, but there are no 9mm bullets to be had in anything other than cast or coated lead, and that seems to go for .45 and .223 as well.

    Final silly question, am I hunting a unicorn? Or am I just being unreasonable, and need to stick to factory ammo for SD/HD, and keep the reloads to range use? Later.

    Dave

  2. #2
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Well, no, HP isn't the sole option. Wadcutters and flat nosed jacketed softpoints are used in self-defense loads in various situations. It's generally accepted a wadcutter will crush more tissue, and perhaps more importantly will not deflect off round bone as easily, as ball ammo. JSPs deform, but not the extent a quality HP will. In some cartridges, say anything under .380 and perhaps .380 as well, ball is the best option simply because it will run in the gun and a deforming bullet won't get enough penetration.

    Without getting deep into the weeds of whys, I don't see any reason to use the exact same bullet to practice with and to actually carry, especially for current and common duty calibers. The goals aren't the same. One of the beautiful things about loading your own is the ability to load a practice round that mimics a known good carry round. The advantage of economics of loading your own training ammo and the advantages of factory known good carry ammo.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  3. #3
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    Most of us agree that Doc's criteria for defense ammo set desirable standards. Except for lead wadcutters used in .38 Spl J frames, I can't think of any other inexpensive bullets that would also be considered for practice and defense ammo. In years past I thought so highly of my cast bullet handgun ammo that I took pride in using it for defense ammo. I would not today because there are many better choices. If being a serious student of reloading since 1969 and taking extreme pains to make good ammo makes me an expert, then let this expert say this. The major ammo companies do it better than I do.

  4. #4
    I also tend to keep all mags loaded with whatever SD ammo I'm using at the time, which means I have to unload and reload for range trips.
    How many magazines per gun is that?
    I only have a couple of guns for which I don't have enough magazines for range and carry. Frex I will be unloading my Glock 43's factory hollow points and reloading with handloads for GSSF Pocket tomorrow.

    Bullet type. Consider that the jacketed hollow point is standard with most police departments and many if not most regular carriers of full power handguns.
    Yes, a flat point is likely to be somewhat more effective than a roundnose. Julian Hatcher thought about 5%, JFP vs LRN.

    I don't put a lot of thought into defensive rifle ammunition. If it gets so bad that I am shooting at domestic insurrectionists with an AR, the M193 type FMJ on hand will just have to do.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  5. #5
    Site Supporter LtDave's Avatar
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    There are a lot of countries where hollow points are forbidden to civilians who somehow manage to get permission to carry guns. How many thousands/millions have been killed by 9mm ball ammo since 1939? Granted mostly out of submachine guns...

    If all I had was ball ammo, I'd load the gun and carry on.
    The first indication a bad guy should have that I'm dangerous is when his
    disembodied soul is looking down at his own corpse wondering what happened.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by daved20319 View Post
    SNIP: Or am I just being unreasonable, and need to stick to factory ammo for SD/HD, and keep the reloads to range use?
    Yes. I think you're being unreasonable or, rather than unreasonable maybe, "focusing on the peas instead of the steak."

    Buy what you want for practice and stick to a proven load for defensive use. My standard for a carry gun is 300 rounds of ball and 100 rounds of the JHP load you will carry. So, buy 4 boxes of something that functions well from DocG's list, burn 2 boxes verifying the load and you've got 100 rounds left of tested ammo. For most folks that's a stock of defensive ammo for many years. Then you go over to the The Simplicity Collective to figure out all the other stuff.
    -All views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect those of the author's employer-

  7. #7
    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
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    I'd also suggest that spare magazines are GENERALLY a very affordable "safety net." My procedure is this:

    1. Buy pistol
    2. Buy 3-5 spare magazines
    3. Go to range, test two magazines with "carry ammo" for 100 rounds total.
    4. Reload those two magazines with "carry ammo" and put them aside
    5. Use "range" magazines for any/all other training

    There is a danger in excessively chambering/unchambering rounds in semi-autos. Bullet set back is a real thing, and pressure spikes can rise to levels where REALLY BAD THINGS can happen. My rule of thumb is I'll only chamber any given round three times. After it's chambered the third time, it becomes the first round I fire in "training" at my next session. That means that every couple of range trips, I'm eating into one more round of my stash of "carry" ammo, but that's a price I'm willing to pay.

    On the question of reloading ammo that exactly mirrors your carry ammo - in a perfect world, this would be a perfect solution. But, the only reason I'd worry about it is if your reloads either don't shoot to the same POI as your carry ammo, or if your loads are so "powder puff" light that they don't simulate the recoil of your carry loads.

    On the other hand, there are arguments for loading training ammo that's lighter/more pleasant to shoot than your "carry" loads. If you're carrying an airweight revolver with 158gr +P SWCLHP, recoil SUCKS, and it's likely that excessive "training" with that load will lead you to develop a flinch, or just not shoot your revolver. Shooting a 148gr "match" load will allow you to focus on other things than recoil management and pain management - little things like sight picture, trigger press, etc. I've found the same to be true in lightweight .45s - a good, accurate 200gr SWC is a pleasure to shoot and train with, and when I switch to "full house" defense loads for quals and whatnot, I don't really notice the increased recoil (again, assuming I don't over do the hard stuff).

  8. #8
    Thanks, guys, I think you've successfully disabused me of at least some of my silly notions . I'll continue with quality factory ammo for SD, and continue having fun my with reloads. Now if I could just find some 9mm bullets somewhere...

    Dave

  9. #9
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daved20319 View Post
    Now if I could just find some 9mm bullets somewhere...

    Dave
    https://www.xtremebullets.com/9mm-s/9666.htm

    Taking maybe 2 weeks to ship, but multiple types in stock.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalms144.1 View Post
    I'd also suggest that spare magazines are GENERALLY a very affordable "safety net." My procedure is this:

    1. Buy pistol
    2. Buy 3-5 spare magazines
    3. Go to range, test two magazines with "carry ammo" for 100 rounds total.
    4. Reload those two magazines with "carry ammo" and put them aside
    5. Use "range" magazines for any/all other training
    6. Every time you order something from a vendor who has mags, throw at least one in your cart.
    Added one.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

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