New 2 July 2020 SIG P320 Lawsuit and P320 Concerns

[RJ]

Maybe you are answering my question? So the trigger bar isn’t solidly affixed to the trigger? If it is, it shouldn’t matter which way the trigger bar moves, as preventing the trigger from moving rearward, would also prevent the trigger bar from moving, regardless of its direction. If it’s not, then that would make more sense to me.

Yes, I understand I’m watching pre upgraded P320s. It would be interesting if someone did that drop test and stuck something behind the trigger to prevent its movement.

I'm not a 320 armorer, and definitely not @HCM, but I had this same question in my head a while back. In case it helps, I found this very good 320 disassembly video below useful in understanding the motion of the trigger bar in the context of this thread. When the trigger shoe moves backward i.e. in a normal press, the trigger bar moves forward. So if you dropped a 320 on it rear, inertia is not going to result in the trigger bar moving, since it is against it's normal travel. This is my understanding why a tabbed trigger shoe on the 320 would not have any benefit, at all.

The movement of the trigger bar / trigger shoe is is shown starting around 30 seconds into the video, as he removes the trigger shoe from the FCU.

[GJM]

I'm not a 320 armorer, and definitely not @HCM, but I had this same question in my head a while back. In case it helps, I found this very good 320 disassembly video below useful in understanding the motion of the trigger bar in the context of this thread. When the trigger shoe moves backward i.e. in a normal press, the trigger bar moves forward. So if you dropped a 320 on it rear, inertia is not going to result in the trigger bar moving, since it is against it's normal travel. This is my understanding why a tabbed trigger shoe on the 320 would not have any benefit, at all.

The movement of the trigger bar / trigger shoe is is shown starting around 30 seconds into the video, as he removes the trigger shoe from the FCU.

The benefit of a tabbed trigger might be some protection against a foreign object getting into a wider holster.

[Suvorov]

The benefit of a tabbed trigger might be some protection against a foreign object getting into a wider holster.

I agree and that was the point I was trying to make in my previous post. Either we have some sort of internal malfunction that is both releasing the striker and the striker/firing pin disconnect simultaneously when pistols are holstered (something my engineering and systems background finds extremely unlikely) or somehow the trigger is being pressed while riding in the holster by foreign objects or simple interaction with the holster. In either case, especially and pressure being applied to the trigger from the side, a tabbed trigger safety would provide a degree of additional protection.

While I’ll admit I am unfamiliar with some of the less used modern striker designs, the P320/365 are rare in the fact they have neither a tabbed trigger safety or grip safety.

[Sammy1]

I'm not a 320 armorer, and definitely not @HCM, but I had this same question in my head a while back. In case it helps, I found this very good 320 disassembly video below useful in understanding the motion of the trigger bar in the context of this thread. When the trigger shoe moves backward i.e. in a normal press, the trigger bar moves forward. So if you dropped a 320 on it rear, inertia is not going to result in the trigger bar moving, since it is against it's normal travel. This is my understanding why a tabbed trigger shoe on the 320 would not have any benefit, at all.

The movement of the trigger bar / trigger shoe is is shown starting around 30 seconds into the video, as he removes the trigger shoe from the FCU.

The whole point is the P320 will not fire without the trigger being pulled (and thus defeating the internal safeties). A tabbed or hinged trigger commonly found on all other striker fired pistols would be more difficult to activate by an object other than your trigger finger. Not talking about drop safe, talking about the slightest pressure on the side or edge of the trigger depressing it and firing the pistol.

[HCM]

The benefit of a tabbed trigger might be some protection against a foreign object getting into a wider holster.

That is the secondary benefit being postulated in this thread.

It only provides partial protection. It may work in circumstances where the object is only partially inserted but as numerous Glock ND’s show, anything that gets far enough in will still fire a tabbed trigger.

The primary reason tabbed triggers are on most modern striker fired pistols a bolt guns is as an inertia /drop safety.

[HCM]

Don’t forget the PX4 “Constant Action” and some Smith DAO hammer fired autos.

And LEM, and DAK.

Weren’t there two generations of Smith DAO ? One partially cocked and one not ?

[DpdG]

Maybe you are answering my question? So the trigger bar isn’t solidly affixed to the trigger? If it is, it shouldn’t matter which way the trigger bar moves, as preventing the trigger from moving rearward, would also prevent the trigger bar from moving, regardless of its direction. If it’s not, then that would make more sense to me.

Yes, I understand I’m watching pre upgraded P320s. It would be interesting if someone did that drop test and stuck something behind the trigger to prevent its movement.

The trigger and trigger bar absolutely are solidly connected. However, the trigger bar and sear are not- they are held together through spring tension. The early (pre-VUP) system could allow the sear to release vertically via inertia without the trigger/trigger bar moving fore/aft. The post VUP makes it so vertical sear movement will cause the trigger bar to move, but again they are only held together via spring pressure, not actual physical control.

[Bucky]

And LEM, and DAK.

Weren’t there two generations of Smith DAO ? One partially cocked and one not ?

LEM is a unique system. One could argue it is fully cocked, or at least the sear is.

Not versed enough in those old Smiths to know about any non partially cocked DAOs. There were so many models, variants.

[Tokarev]

Anyone know where Ben is for this video? Canada? Curious about the aftermarket parts and also how the armorers recreated the firing in the holster.

[Noah]

Anyone know where Ben is for this video? Canada? Curious about the aftermarket parts and also how the armorers recreated the firing in the holster.

The trigger referenced is an Agency, not Apex