New 2 July 2020 SIG P320 Lawsuit and P320 Concerns

[Chuck Whitlock]

There was a rumor years ago in these parts of a deputy who carried his revolver with a trigger lock installed. He was not well regarded.

I attended FITP with an investigator from IRS OIG. Their policy was to put a trigger guard lock on the pistol after removal from the holster...without manipulating (unloading) the weapon. They apparently had a few bed pops in hotel rooms or something. I don't know if that policy is still in effect.

[Joe in PNG]

There was a rumor years ago in these parts of a deputy who carried his revolver with a trigger lock installed. He was not well regarded.

I attended FITP with an investigator from IRS OIG. Their policy was to put a trigger guard lock on the pistol after removal from the holster...without manipulating (unloading) the weapon. They apparently had a few bed pops in hotel rooms or something. I don't know if that policy is still in effect.

Things that make you go 'WHAT DA FAAAAAAA?!??!?!?!"

[Texaspoff]

Unfortunately it’s more common that many suppose. We had a detailer from another office doing that - apparently her office had been tolerating it because she had ND’ed into her leg while in the Academy…..

There have been two recent OIS videos posted here in the LE UOF Video thread where officers can be seen carrying chamber empty and can be seen racking a round into the chamber before engaging. In one the officer initially short strokes and fails to chamber a round on the first attempt. Both officers were lucky they had partners present.

Our policy requires a round to be in the chamber when carrying on duty. This was a discussion many years ago during one of my in service training courses, carrying on an empty chamber vs loaded. We set up an exercise with sim rounds and two folks standing apart 12 feet. One had a round in the chamber the other didn't.

During one exercise, the one with the round in the chamber drew first, I'm guessing you can figure out who won those rounds ever single time, it wasn't even close.

The next rounds were initiated with a shot timer. Again, the one with a round in the chamber won each and every time. Carry on an empty chamber, especially as an LE is playing roulette, and the odds are no where in the your favor.

As much as Police Administrators hate attending my course, and hearing me preach, Typically when officers are required to use deadly force, it is in a gunfighting type mode, therefore we should train like gunfighters. It may not be politically correct, or sound all warm and fuzzy, but the balance between speed an accuracy must be achieved and trained for.

You can draw as fast as you want, but if you can't hit your target, it isn't going to protect you, and the liability for that round when it hits an innocent, falls squarely on the officer. There isn't enough emphasis placed on missed shots in most training.

Missed hits are a big deal with our training co op. We have a school district police department as well, and shot placement is paramount with them. You want your child in a school with an officer who can't hit shit. Could that officer stop a threat, and what would be the risk of hitting innocents if his skills aren't there.

Always hope for the best, but train for the absolute worst scenario possible. I know some may think LV can be a bit silly sometimes, but one thing he said, that rings true with me each and every time I train is, "Speed is fine, Accuracy is final". YMMV






TXPO

[AMC]

The fact that carrying a semiautomatic pistol with a round in the chamber as a law enforcement officer has to even be discussed anywhere is beyond disturbing. Further evidence of the growing discomfort with firearms use among law enforcement. Sorry, but the 'Israeli Operator' Instagram hero you are following is wrong. About everything. 99% of LE administrators need to be smacked in the face for stupidity, and now that's filtering down to the rank and file.

Sorry....but these people need to stay off my damn lawn.

[Sammy1]

This past two weeks I had a very wide range of experiences (couple third party) with the P320. I participated in a shooting match with other LE. Several of whom issue the P320. They have not had any issues with the pistols. One agency reported a very high annual round count and no problems. There were also military present, and they report no issues with the M17. I then did a large steel challenge match and observed numerous P320 pistols being used by competitors, no problems. I felt much better about the 320. Then, two AD/ND the same week. I was not present for either but people I know filled me in. One was a detective responding to a swatting call and the other was a well-known competitor in a large match (I wasn't present for either). No injuries in either case. The detective advised his went off while reholstering and a piece of clothing/equipment got caught up in the trigger guard. The competitor had his ND while reloading. Appears to be no fault of the gun in either case. But if these weren't stand up guys what could they have claimed. I could see someone of less character saying it wasn't their fault and the gun just went off.

[Chuck Whitlock]

The fact that carrying a semiautomatic pistol with a round in the chamber as a law enforcement officer has to even be discussed anywhere is beyond disturbing. Further evidence of the growing discomfort with firearms use among law enforcement. Sorry, but the 'Israeli Operator' Instagram hero you are following is wrong. About everything. 99% of LE administrators need to be smacked in the face for stupidity, and now that's filtering down to the rank and file.

Sorry....but these people need to stay off my damn lawn.

This film will need to be moved to the "Non-Fiction" section soon.

[camel]

This past two weeks I had a very wide range of experiences (couple third party) with the P320. I participated in a shooting match with other LE. Several of whom issue the P320. They have not had any issues with the pistols. One agency reported a very high annual round count and no problems. There were also military present, and they report no issues with the M17. I then did a large steel challenge match and observed numerous P320 pistols being used by competitors, no problems. I felt much better about the 320. Then, two AD/ND the same week. I was not present for either but people I know filled me in. One was a detective responding to a swatting call and the other was a well-known competitor in a large match (I wasn't present for either). No injuries in either case. The detective advised his went off while reholstering and a piece of clothing/equipment got caught up in the trigger guard. The competitor had his ND while reloading. Appears to be no fault of the gun in either case. But if these weren't stand up guys what could they have claimed. I could see someone of less character saying it wasn't their fault and the gun just went off.

Keep your burger hook of the bang switch?

[theJanitor]

So I just got a revised disconnector from TheSigArmorer. It's supposed to reduce the probability of catastrophic OOB ignition. I've never had a problem with my X5 Legion, but i also only have about 1k through it, and I'm not a particularly fast shooter, so I'm definitely no outrunning the pistol.

But I forgot that I don't take guns apart and now I have to psych myself up to disassemble the 320 FCU

[AMC]

So I just got a revised disconnector from TheSigArmorer. It's supposed to reduce the probability of catastrophic OOB ignition. I've never had a problem with my X5 Legion, but i also only have about 1k through it, and I'm not a particularly fast shooter, so I'm definitely no outrunning the pistol.

But I forgot that I don't take guns apart and now I have to psych myself up to disassemble the 320 FCU

Not sure if this is a joke, but would strongly advise against doing that

[theJanitor]

Not sure if this is a joke, but would strongly advise against doing that

Not a joke. I ordered the part after seeing it's explanation and the recent OOB sightings on the internet. But I don't think I wanna fool with it