She will get dry fucked with a sandpaper dildo if that firearm ever injures another person with an uncommanded discharge, and it comes out she knew of the VUP but refused to send in the gun. Stupid should hurt. Hopefully, it doesn't hurt another person.Originally Posted by psalms144.1
I would hope that when P320s are shipped to SIG for the VUP that SIG is also updating the sear/spring setup, and any other of the running changes, bringing things up to at least June 2019, but I'm not on the SIG need-to-know memo distribution. HCM or Lwt 16, either of you heard anything?
As I've said before, I would not personally carry or recommend any pre-June 2019 production P320 unless it could be conclusively established that such an earlier production P320 had both the VUP and the sear/spring modificatrions performed. Organizations in particular might want to be cognizant of the liability/attachable liability to both their members and the public if they are issuing and/or allowing non-upgraded P320s into service (and to me that applies to off-duty carry as well).
While it'll likely never see the light of day, it would be interesting to compare the numbers of P320s produced needing the VUP/sear upgrade compared to the actual number performed (and for it to be truly meaningful, the chart would need to encapsualte BOTH the VUP and the sear/spring upgrades)
The frustrating thing with all this is that the P320 is, issues aside (which unfortunately I really can't conveniently just put aside), an excellent gun/platform. Eminently shootable, with great tailorability vis-a-vis the interchangeable grip modules and now FCUs. Yeah, there are lots of fiddly little componernts to the FCU, but in my world to date that hasn't actually morphed into any areas of actual operational concern. It's also one of a relatively few platforms that you can get out of the box with a semi-decent OEM RDS. And OEM magazines, both/either Mecgar or Check-Mate are excellent.
Best, Jon
Last edited by JonInWA; 06-15-2022 at 01:17 PM.
Well that paints a picture, but why?? It’s a “voluntary upgrade”, not a safety recall. I remember Sig’s ad. You don’t need a trigger dingy to be drop safe. I’ve never seen them recant that ad, though it’s hard to find these days.
Tab safeties on pistol and rifle triggers are inertia drop safeties, due to the way the trigger bar on the P320 moves a tab safety is not effective on the P320. Even the manual safety, on the manual safety model P320 which physically locks the trigger bar does not make the older guns drop safe. That’s not the issue.
The VUP is BS but straight out of the early 1990s Glock playbook.
In fact, given the variations in how the VUP has been executed I would not trust even a post VUP P320 for duty.
Does that mean you don't trust a brand new production 320 that has the upgrades or just one of the older upgraded ones?
Just the older VUPs.
New, post June 1, 2019 guns are GTG.
The reason I don’t trust the VUPs is the modifications have been inconsistent. Some are fine some still have issues.
Out of all the anecdotal (and admittedly sketchy/non-specific) information I've seen to date, none of the "uncommanded/involuntary" P320 discharges appear to have occurred with post-1 June 2019 production guns.
Best, Jon
With apologies in case I missed it, because I didn’t see this come up, but: in general, does the .45 ACP P320 fall under the ‘P320 Concerns’?
I’m pondering options for a occasional use, larger caliber handgun, on the order of .45 ACP or 10mm. Use case is competition, and to have an option bigger than 9mm outdoors for 4 (or 2) legged threats. Carry would be OWB.
Short finalists, after an initial search, are a Glock 21SF or a P320 Carry. Both are .45 ACP. I have had good luck with 3 P365 guns. I like the P320 modular concept. I like the standard night sights. The Glock, because well, it’s a Glock. I have size M hands.
But I’m not thrilled with a gun that might or might no go off awkwardly. Any thoughts on this appreciated.
Last edited by RJ; 06-16-2022 at 05:38 PM.
There are P250s in .45 Auto as well. They work with the same grip modules, magazines, barrels and carry gear as the P320s, but have a nice, smooth, revolver-like DAO trigger. No awkward discharges. Don't have dot or even much for aftermarket sight options. Would have gotten one already if I hadn't gotten a USP first. And at least check out a P220. It's my favorite .45.
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Not another dime.
A couple of thoughts:
First, I'd assume the FCU issues are FCU issues-in other words, as long as you're getting a post-1 June 2019 P320, you should be good to go regardless of caliber...assuming the SIG and assembly and QC are up to snuff.
Second, if you're getting a gun for outdoor carry, I'd distinguish between "outdoor" and "wilderness". To me, "outdoor" means day hike, bicycling etc, where you're close to logistical support if necessary. "Wilderness" means more off the grid, including more seperation (time and/or distance) from logistical /admin support. I'd be pretty comfortable with either a Glock or a P320 in "outdoor" use.
Component durability and ease of maintenance (to include detailed disassembly and reassembly) is more of a concern to me in "wilderness" use. In that case, it'll be a Glock, due to ease of doing, well, pretty much everything-and doing it in a cap if necessary.
The P320 just has a bunch of fiddly little components in the FCUs-to the point of without formal armorer training I'm very hesitant to do much more than field-stripping and switching grip modules with a P320. That doesn't necessarily augur well if I take a spill in a canoe in a muddy. silty stream...
I'm very comfortable in carrying my Gen 3 Glock G21 in a tactical leg rig or a tanker-style holster when hunting or hiking in the wilderness, with situationally appropriate Underwood Lehigh or Buffalo Bore cartridges, in addition to my service cartridges (Hornady Critical Duty, Speer Gold Dot). Ditto for my Gen4 G22 in .40.
Best, Jon
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