New 2 July 2020 SIG P320 Lawsuit and P320 Concerns

[JonInWA]

To those new to the discussion here, this is one of those threads that you'll immensely benefit from by reading through it in its entirety before jumping in and commenting on. We've had some very qualified p-f individuals involved in the thread as it evolved. Reading through it will provide a great background and framework for reference on the P320 issues, their discovery, and some of the manufacturing running changes that have (and probably still are) occurring. This is not a P320 fanboi discussion-it's a serious deep-dive (a la p-f at it's best) into a potentially exceptional firearm, but one that has been plagued with some serious developmental issues.

My thoughts and position is that potential and existing users (both individual and organizational) really need to educate themselves on it to best choose and use the tool. The term caveat emptor definitely applies...

Best, Jon

[LowLead]

I'm just as interested in seeing how this develops as (hopefully) anyone else is. If there's an actual design flaw (not a philosophical complaint masked as a design flaw), believe me, I want to know. I'm not a Sig "fanboy" either, but unfortunately it's hard to get an accurate understanding of what's going on with the amount of feelings and emotions seemingly involved with Sig Sauer's management, and "morals". When I asked Bucky to expand I was being genuine. Thought maybe I'd hear about striker safety lever movement distances, measurements compared to similarly functional safety systems, that's all.

I haven't been sharing much opinion. There's plenty of that to go around already. The only thing we know for a fact in this most recent lawsuit is that Ashley Catatao has enough money for a court filing fee, and that she comes from a police department who had a 20 year veteran stick a loaded P320 "wrapped in cloth" in a duffel bag. Surprise, he later claimed his P320 fired without the trigger being pulled. I'll defer to the outcome of the lawsuits, but something tells me this will be chalked up alongside caliber debates. Time will tell.

[Tokarev]

Apparently yet another case of "it just went off..."

https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/new...by-itself.html

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[WobblyPossum]

Apparently yet another case of "it just went off..."

https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/new...by-itself.html

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

The article makes it sound like this pistol had been sent back to Sig for the “voluntary upgrade” too.

[JonInWA]

The article makes it sound like this pistol had been sent back to Sig for the “voluntary upgrade” too.

Not necessarily; a careful read of what the defendant's lawyer stated not specify whether or not his gun went through the VUP, it just asserts that the VUP itself doesn't necessarily eliminate the potential involuntary discharging issue.

Based on what has come up in the thread arguable what's needed is either a post-June 2019 P320, or an earlier P320 that has 1) gone through the VUP AND 2) incorporated the running change of the revised sear spring mounting, with the springs mounted on pegs as opposed to the previous depressions. The peg mounting apparently more sufficiently maintains the proper spring positions, preventing them from crossing over and providing weakened tension.

And the FCUs and the guns needs to be properly assembled and QC'd.....

Best, Jon

[HCM]

Not necessarily; a careful read of what the defendant's lawyer stated not specify whether or not his gun went through the VUP, it just asserts that the VUP itself doesn't necessarily eliminate the potential involuntary discharging issue.

Based on what has come up in the thread arguable what's needed is either a post-June 2019 P320, or an earlier P320 that has 1) gone through the VUP AND 2) incorporated the running change of the revised sear spring mounting, with the springs mounted on pegs as opposed to the previous depressions. The peg mounting apparently more sufficiently maintains the proper spring positions, preventing them from crossing over and providing weakened tension.

And the FCUs and the guns needs to be properly assembled and QC'd.....

Best, Jon

Agreed - it actually seems the plaintiff’s attorney is dancing around the VUP issue, which makes me suspect it’s not been upgraded. Not that I fully trust the VUP.

Also putting the gun in a holster then zipping it inside the pocket of your athletic pants does not exactly scream competence to me.

[lwt16]

I had a shooter the other day who is a veteran cop as well as a NG Officer who had a very early copy of a P320 that lacked a disconnector and had the original trigger/sear combo. I asked him if he knew about the drop safe issues and the voluntary "upgrade" and he said that he did not. He was somewhat surprised that his pistol wasn't recalled and he contacted Sig to send his in.

No telling how many more are out there like his.

[WobblyPossum]

I had a shooter the other day who is a veteran cop as well as a NG Officer who had a very early copy of a P320 that lacked a disconnector and had the original trigger/sear combo. I asked him if he knew about the drop safe issues and the voluntary "upgrade" and he said that he did not. He was somewhat surprised that his pistol wasn't recalled and he contacted Sig to send his in.

No telling how many more are out there like his.

My guess is most of the guns built pre-upgrade have not been upgraded. What percentage of gun owners are on forums like this one that discuss these issues? If the guy at the gun counter who sold you your P320 didn’t tell you about it needing to go back to Sig, you probably have never heard of the “voluntary upgrade.”

[ST911]

My guess is most of the guns built pre-upgrade have not been upgraded.

That's consistent with my experience, comm/gov/private sides. With similar lack of awareness of the VUP and underlying issues.

[psalms144.1]

I worked with an agent from another agency who carried a "pre-upgrade" P320 as a personal duty pistol. She knew about the issues with drop safety, and still refused to send it in for upgrade. I've lost count of how many other non-LE folks I've had the same discussion with - you can't fix stupid.