New 2 July 2020 SIG P320 Lawsuit and P320 Concerns

[lwt16]

Due to being in litigation, I doubt there will be too much Sig corporate will say on advice of counsel. It may be a while before it's settled/adjudicated.

I have tried to contact them in the past via armorer support. I found it lacking.

I just got a Wilson Combat grip module for mine...the newer Carry II. It solved the grip problem I had with the gun. I like the thing.......I just feel uneasy with carrying it now.

[lwt16]

Really dumb question: How does one know that a particular FCU was made before or after the 4/18 date? Serial number lookup? Visual inspection of a certain part? If serial number, is there a known number which can serve a a cutoff?

While I currently have no P320 pistols, I have friends who do, including more than one HSV LEO. As such, I want to be conversant with the issues and fixes.

I found my build dates on the box.

[JonInWA]

Really dumb question: How does one know that a particular FCU was made before or after the 4/18 date? Serial number lookup? Visual inspection of a certain part? If serial number, is there a known number which can serve a a cutoff?

While I currently have no P320 pistols, I have friends who do, including more than one HSV LEO. As such, I want to be conversant with the issues and fixes.

It's actually pretty simple-your polymer case that the P320 came in has a barcode sticker with the production date printed on it; on mine it's to the immediate right of the model designation/sku sticker.

If that's not available, I would think that SIG can provide you with the production date based on the serial number.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

There may also be limits to the information that SIG/SIG Engineering, etc. provides to their field LEO and Commercial Sales Reps; I've found that to be the case with at least one other major manufacturer in the past.

Best, Jon

[Totem Polar]

I would like to request that we self-moderate and allow @JonInWA and @lwt16 make their various posts addressing their observations and communications, before we begin a conversation in earnest.

Concur.

[HCM]

Huh. Can't say I'm surprised. The hasty nature of the upgrade implementation has always smelled funny. What are the odds that Sig fixed the issue without introducing additional problems just by adding some extra parts and doing sone milling? I've been optimistic the the 320 will get sorted out through the fielding of military guns, but I've been skeptical of the existing commercial P320.

I am very curious about the specific differences y'all have identified between guns in group 3 and 4, as I have a few of them (pre-2018 guns that have been "upgraded" by Sig). My examples have been awesome, I am deeply invested in the P320 system, and I'd like to stay with it, if possible. Are the differences in just the upper or lower (i.e. can you solve it by getting a post 4/18 "conversion kit" and putting it on an upgraded FCU)? Are there specific issues we can look for? Is there anything you are using as a "go/no go" for your personal guns?

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I can't definitively answer your question but if you read between the lines I think the answer to your question is below:

My Agency, with 15,000 armed LEOs has adopted a "DHS" specific SKU / model P320 carry 9 mm with an X grip as our standard issue pistol, replacing the SIG P229R DAK 40. The testing and adoption process spanned 3 to 4 years and over 200,000 rounds of Gold dot duty ammo.

In addition to GOV issued guns, we are allowed to use certain agency approved Personally Owned Weapons (POW). Unlike the approved Glock POWs and the SIG P365 POWs which may be standard commercial / Blue Label/ IOP guns, only DHS SKU P320s (usually purchased via an agency specific program) are authorized for POW/Duty use.

We are allowed (at least on POW) to use most SIG OEM Grip shells (except is the Legion Tungsten) and most SIG OEM Slide / exchange kits (no porting or lightening cuts in the slide permitted).

The DHS sku FCU has been described to me as an M17/M18 FCU without the thumb safety.

Based on this fact pattern, Commercial slides and grips ok - commercial FCU no go, a reasonable person might infer the issues were in the FCU.

[98z28]

I can't definitively answer your question but if you read between the lines I think the answer to your question is below:

My Agency, with 15,000 armed LEOs has adopted a "DHS" specific SKU / model P320 carry 9 mm with an X grip as our standard issue pistol, replacing the SIG P229R DAK 40. The testing and adoption process spanned 3 to 4 years and over 200,000 rounds of Gold dot duty ammo.

In addition to GOV issued guns, we are allowed to use certain agency approved Personally Owned Weapons (POW). Unlike the approved Glock POWs and the SIG P365 POWs which may be standard commercial / Blue Label/ IOP guns, only DHS SKU P320s (usually purchased via an agency specific program) are authorized for POW/Duty use.

We are allowed (at least on POW) to use most SIG OEM Grip shells (except is the Legion Tungsten) and most SIG OEM Slide / exchange kits (no porting or lightening cuts in the slide permitted).

The DHS sku FCU has been described to me as an M17/M18 FCU without the thumb safety.

Based on this fact pattern, Commercial slides and grips ok - commercial FCU no go, a reasonable person might infer the issues were in the FCU.

Excellent info, thank you. This matches with what lwt16 posted upthread as well. It also tells me that this issue has, once again, has been known...and yet a bunch of are still walking around with these things in our holsters. That's as far as I'll go on bashing Sig for now.

The list from the OP calls out "military" M17/18 as probably good to go. Are we reasonably sure that the commercial versions of these do not have the updated FCU, or is that unknown (@lwt16: have you inspected any commercial M17/18's)?

[lwt16]

Excellent info, thank you. This matches with what lwt16 posted upthread as well. It also tells me that this issue has, once again, has been known...and yet a bunch of are still walking around with these things in our holsters. That's as far as I'll go on bashing Sig for now.

The list from the OP calls out "military" M17/18 as probably good to go. Are we reasonably sure that the commercial versions of these do not have the updated FCU, or is that unknown (@lwt16: have you inspected any commercial M17/18's)?

No I have not had the opportunity. Also, my armorer's class didn't cover the manual safety installation or removal although it is in my Armorer's manual.

I'm really curious now as to what a DHS FCU looks like when busted down to the bitty parts.

I am planning on tearing both FCUs that I do own down to see if I can detect any other parts changes. I did take both apart but didn't really look carefully at the rest of the FCU parts. I didn't see anything other than the aforementioned striker safety lever spring omission in the 2020 model.

Thanks to @HCM for that post.

[Nephrology]

Subscribed to this thread with extreme interest.

I would like to request that we self-moderate and allow @JonInWA and @lwt16 make their various posts addressing their observations and communications, before we begin a conversation in earnest.

I can always go back and edit the OP if this thread gets long and we want to consolidate their observations into the first post.

[Wake27]

Interesting. I’ve wondered about the claims with the M17s and M18s not being affected by the previous ADs since I’m issued one.


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