New 2 July 2020 SIG P320 Lawsuit and P320 Concerns

[Texaspoff]

So the striker safety spring is still there and this is just a spring on the level that pushes up on the safety spring? That makes way more sense.

Yes that is correct.



TXPO

[JonInWA]

Here's the response a p=f member received from SIG when inquiring specifically about his 2019-production P320s:

"Both serial numbers you listed come back with production dates in 2019 so they would have all of the latest revision parts post voluntary upgrade. the safety lever spring is omitted from new models October 2017 and forward when we started adding the upgraded parts to new model firearms."

So it would seem that the key thing is exactly when SIG changed the sear spring retention method from holes to posts on the sear. Until SIG says somethng more specific, I'm sticking with "2019" as being a good date for it, the the p-f member's earliest 2019 production gun was a May 31st production piece.

So certainy any P320 production from May 31st/June 1st on should be fine (i.e., having the sears with posts for sear spring attachment and retention), and inferentially probably those from January 2019 on are good too.

Best, Jon

[Texaspoff]

Here's the response a p=f member received from SIG when inquiring specifically about his 2019-production P320s:

"Both serial numbers you listed come back with production dates in 2019 so they would have all of the latest revision parts post voluntary upgrade. the safety lever spring is omitted from new models October 2017 and forward when we started adding the upgraded parts to new model firearms."

So it would seem that the key thing is exactly when SIG changed the sear spring retention method from holes to posts on the sear. Until SIG says somethng more specific, I'm sticking with "2019" as being a good date for it, the the p-f member's earliest 2019 production gun was a May 31st production piece.

So certainy any P320 production from May 31st/June 1st on should be fine (i.e., having the sears with posts for sear spring attachment and retention), and inferentially probably those from January 2019 on are good too.

Best, Jon

To my knowledge the P320 has always had the sear springs attached to the sear with posts. I have a sear from a 2015 P320 carry and the springs are attached by posts. What I was referring to was the safety lever spring, which is no longer used. The safety lever has no effect on the sear, it's movement or the springs.


Original first production p320 sear.


Upgraded current production sear with second notch.



TXPO

[lwt16]

Check post #113 to see what it looks like @Texaspoff

[Texaspoff]

Check post #113 to see what it looks like @Texaspoff

That looked like a newer one with the secondary cuts. I have never seen one with the holes for the springs. Wonder if that is the most current design. I haven't been in a 20 production 320, so I couldn't tell you. All the 320 we have here at the PD ranging from 2015 through 2019 all have the post mounts.

In the parts listing I posted for you in #117, both sears show to have the posts for the springs. That paperwork was from our 2019 armorer update course.


TXPO

[JonInWA]

That looked like a newer one with the secondary cuts. I have never seen one with the holes for the springs. Wonder if that is the most current design. I haven't been in a 20 production 320, so I couldn't tell you. All the 320 we have here at the PD ranging from 2015 through 2019 all have the post mounts.

In the parts listing I posted for you in #117, both sears show to have the posts for the springs. That paperwork was from our 2019 armorer update course.


TXPO

In your 2019 Armorer Course, did they mention anything specific that had been done/modified/replaced subesquent to the VUP in 2017? In reading the Guay suit, it seemed inferentially that something had been done in 2018, but I haven't come across anything to substantiate that from an authoritative source (like a responsible adult/publication in SIG...), and the Customer Service mantra is everything post VUP is good to go.

The more I think about this, it strikes me that you can have a simple, transparent design that is adequately materialed and well assembled (Glock), or a complex, but well engineered, well materialed, and well QC'd pistol (e.g., HK, Beretta)-but the SIG FCU is complex, and with questionable QC. Material quality is undetermined from what I can tell and observe, but SIG's previous choice of mid-grade MIM from India on other/concurrent SIG pistols is noted.

I like my P320. But I have significant doubts regarding SIG's transparency, assembly and QC. As HCM presciently observed, it's a bit of a disposable pistol. That does not provide me with warm fuzzy feelings, and diminishes my pride in ownership. Operationally, mine has been doing superbly. But I think my interest in the platform had likely peaked with my sample size of exactly one.

Best, Jon

[Texaspoff]

In your 2019 Armorer Course, did they mention anything specific that had been done/modified/replaced subesquent to the VUP in 2017? In reading the Guay suit, it seemed inferentially that something had been done in 2018, but I haven't come across anything to substantiate that from an authoritative source (like a responsible adult/publication in SIG...), and the Customer Service mantra is everything post VUP is good to go.

The more I think about this, it strikes me that you can have a simple, transparent design that is adequately materialed and well assembled (Glock), or a complex, but well engineered, well materialed, and well QC'd pistol (e.g., HK, Beretta)-but the SIG FCU is complex, and with questionable QC. Material quality is undetermined from what I can tell and observe, but SIG's previous choice of mid-grade MIM from India on other/concurrent SIG pistols is noted.

I like my P320. But I have significant doubts regarding SIG's transparency, assembly and QC. As HCM presciently observed, it's a bit of a disposable pistol. That does not provide me with warm fuzzy feelings, and diminishes my pride in ownership. Operationally, mine has been doing superbly. But I think my interest in the platform had likely peaked with my sample size of exactly one.

Best, Jon

We talked about the upgrade program and what parts were changed. We discussed the different variations in the slide cut outs, located at the rear underside of the slide. These were done to change the velocity of the slide due to some variation in ammo that was being use in some P320's. Didn't go into specifics about which ones. Talked about the magazine base plate redesign, and what is was done for.

QC was brought up as well. As an example, I had my hands on a shipment of LE guns at a local dealer. 6 X carrys, and every one of them had something a miss including one that's trigger was extremely difficult to pull. AN examination of the fire control unit revealed the chassis on the trigger side had not be cut or milled high enough and the top of the trigger bar was rubbing against it during the pull. Sights were way off on a few, and one had stripped screws in the optic plate. These kind of things shouldn't get by QC, I mean they were blatantly obvious.

Other than that we didn't talk about anything else that happened prior to the upgrade as far as any rolling changes. The guy teaching did say Sig is constantly testing and upgrading or revising parts if needed. Not sure how much of that really goes on actually.



TXPO

[lwt16]

That looked like a newer one with the secondary cuts. I have never seen one with the holes for the springs. Wonder if that is the most current design. I haven't been in a 20 production 320, so I couldn't tell you. All the 320 we have here at the PD ranging from 2015 through 2019 all have the post mounts.

In the parts listing I posted for you in #117, both sears show to have the posts for the springs. That paperwork was from our 2019 armorer update course.


TXPO

In my p320 armorer class, we were told that we might see the older (at the time) sears with the craters/dimples.

That was in 2018. This copy was circa 10/2019. Not sure if they just reach in a bin and grab whatever.

[Texaspoff]

Check post #113 to see what it looks like @Texaspoff

That looked like a newer one with the secondary cuts. I have never seen one with the holes for the springs. Wonder if that is the most current design. I haven't been in a 20 production 320, so I couldn't tell you. All the 320 we have here at the PD ranging from 2015 through 2019 all have the post mounts.

In the parts listing I posted for you in #117, both sears show to have the posts for the springs. That paperwork was from our 2019 armorer update course.


TXPO

I also spoke to a local regional Sig Armorer/LE dealer/Competitor and he said he has never seen a sear with the holes for the springs. He said he was going to call Sig and see what they said about that, cause he was dumbfounded. He has also been extremely involved with Sig and the 320 since it's inception.

You may have a prototype part that somehow made it into a production gun. With Sig's typicall QC that wouldn't surprise me one bit.

I would be interested to see if any of your other department guns have the same sear design in them.


TXPO

[lwt16]

I also spoke to a local regional Sig Armorer/LE dealer/Competitor and he said he has never seen a sear with the holes for the springs. He said he was going to call Sig and see what they said about that, cause he was dumbfounded. He has also been extremely involved with Sig and the 320 since it's inception.

You may have a prototype part that somehow made it into a production gun. With Sig's typicall QC that wouldn't surprise me one bit.

I would be interested to see if any of your other department guns have the same sear design in them.


TXPO

Ask him to send me a modern sear (I'll pay if needed so long as it's reasonable) if at all possible. The owner is scared of it in it's current condition due to shot truck seat. I'd like to bring it up to spec for him.