New 2 July 2020 SIG P320 Lawsuit and P320 Concerns

[RJ]

Since we are on the topic of ND (AD?) lawsuits, the subject of trigger travel has come up, as in I believe it’s considered a longer trigger travel is a mitigation in reducing the risk of a ND. True?

IIRC my P30SL LEM V1 had about 1”, my Glock 19 is approx 1/2”, and my VP9 was 1/4”.

Does anyone have the trigger travel distance for the P320? How about the P365XL?

I did a cursory search online but couldn’t come up with hard data on the above, but I swear I’ve seen the Glock trigger of 1/2” somewhere.

TIA

In the FWIW dept, tonight curiosity got the better of me, so I measured the trigger travel of the Center section of the flat trigger on my P365XL to be approximately 7/16”.

In a perfect world, I’d be able to buy an SCD for my Sig. But I’m happier that the travel turned out to be closer to my Glock than my HK.

[L-2]

I think the pictured "DHS" fire control unit (FCU) looks nicely smoothed compared to the commercial version (I don't think it's because the commercial FCU is dirtier in the photos).

This P320/M17/M18 SIG-stuff is just too confusing for me. I'm glad I've got no plans to jump into trying one of these pistols right now; now probably never will (I thought about it though).

I'll just deal with my P225, P229R, and P226R, each with different extractor generations/types. My career has 99% been with Glocks, btw.

[VT1032]

I haven't had a chance to read this whole thread so if this was addressed earlier, my apologies. Is there any indication that this could impact the military M17/M18 pistols? I just recently investigated an incident where a soldier appeared to have a negligent discharge with an M17 which caused damage to property. The soldier claimed it "just went off" when he released the slide on a full magazine and that his finger was nowhere near the trigger.

The weapon was inspected by our state's senior armorer and given a clean bill of health. Without diving into specifics, the dude in question was "multitasking" and definitely wasn't paying full attention to the weapon at the time. I came to the conclusion that he done fucked up but now this has me questioning myself a bit.

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[lwt16]

I haven't had a chance to read this whole thread so if this was addressed earlier, my apologies. Is there any indication that this could impact the military M17/M18 pistols? I just recently investigated an incident where a soldier appeared to have a negligent discharge with an M17 which caused damage to property. The soldier claimed it "just went off" when he released the slide on a full magazine and that his finger was nowhere near the trigger.

The weapon was inspected by our state's senior armorer and given a clean bill of health. Without diving into specifics, the dude in question was "multitasking" and definitely wasn't paying full attention to the weapon at the time. I came to the conclusion that he done fucked up but now this has me questioning myself a bit.

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I suspect you were correct in that being an operator error. Not certain, but suspect that was a trigger finger discipline issue.

I'd try to re-create the discharge a hundred times and then drive on if I were looking into that. I have had one weapon that was a slam fire machine but that was a Taurus PT 58 in .380 way back in the late 80s.

I haven't had the pleasure of running a M17 but can the thumb safety be engaged with the slide to the rear? Or rather, can the slide be locked open, the safety can be engaged to "safe", and then the slide can be cycled or dropped into battery?

[VT1032]

I suspect you were correct in that being an operator error. Not certain, but suspect that was a trigger finger discipline issue.

I'd try to re-create the discharge a hundred times and then drive on if I were looking into that. I have had one weapon that was a slam fire machine but that was a Taurus PT 58 in .380 way back in the late 80s.

I haven't had the pleasure of running a M17 but can the thumb safety be engaged with the slide to the rear? Or rather, can the slide be locked open, the safety can be engaged to "safe", and then the slide can be cycled or dropped into battery?

Regarding the safety, I'm not sure how it works and I was wondering the same thing. I've never really messed with P320s much. I put a mag through a civ P320 5 years ago and that's the extent of my experience with them. I did very pointedly ask the soldier in question about whether the safety was on at any point to include when he chambered a round and he couldn't tell me.

I really wanted to recreate it like you're talking but wasn't able to get ammo or range time during the amount of time I had to wrap things up. Our armorer's did go through it pretty good and didn't find and issues. I can't remember what date they said but it was a pretty recent production.

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[98z28]

The side-by-side pictures are fascinating. I would have guessed the commercial slides had less machining than the DHS slides, but the converse is true. More holes and more material removed from the interior of the commercial slide. But the radii appear better for not inducing stress cracking on the ejection port on the commercial slide although this might be the result of the pictures. The commercial barrel's lugs have less machining than the DHS barrel's lugs, which I expected. The DHS FCU appears to be better finished in some areas and not in others. The fire control parts on the DHS FCU appear to have some radii not on the commercial pistols.

The compact 9mm slides have been through several iterations. The commercial slide Gadfly posted is one of the early versions when Sig was obsessed with lightening the slide (2016-ish). There were quite a few reported FTE issues with those slides, though revisions to the extractor, extractor spring, and finally the slide itself (leaving more mass on it) seem to have fixed the issue. Slides made after early 2017 look like Gadfly's DHS gun. I have one of those earlier slides that had extraction issues and Sig was able to get it running by swapping out extractor bits. It cycles noticeably faster compared to the heavier slides.

Here's an older thread with more info on the slide revisions: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....l=1#post617443

[farscott]

The compact 9mm slides have been through several iterations. The commercial slide Gadfly posted is one of the early versions when Sig was obsessed with lightening the slide (2016-ish). There were quite a few reported FTE issues with those slides, though revisions to the extractor, extractor spring, and finally the slide itself (leaving more mass on it) seem to have fixed the issue. Slides made after early 2017 look like Gadfly's DHS gun. I have one of those earlier slides that had extraction issues and Sig was able to get it running by swapping out extractor bits. It cycles noticeably faster compared to the heavier slides.

Here's an older thread with more info on the slide revisions: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....l=1#post617443

That explains the slide differences. All the lightening cuts were because of a desire to handle a 97-grain frangible round. I have a feeling those early slides will become collectible much in the way the 1910 variant of the 1911 is collectible.

[vaspence]

I suspect you were correct in that being an operator error. Not certain, but suspect that was a trigger finger discipline issue.

I'd try to re-create the discharge a hundred times and then drive on if I were looking into that. I have had one weapon that was a slam fire machine but that was a Taurus PT 58 in .380 way back in the late 80s.

I haven't had the pleasure of running a M17 but can the thumb safety be engaged with the slide to the rear? Or rather, can the slide be locked open, the safety can be engaged to "safe", and then the slide can be cycled or dropped into battery?

In the case of my recently picked up M17 (box date 4/21/2020) the answer to your questions is yes. The safety can be placed on after the slide is locked to the rear. The safety can also be on and then the slide locked to the rear.

[lwt16]

Awesome. Thanks @vaspence

[TexasSiegfried]

I just want to thank everyone for this thread. I had tried to put my 320's away and move full time to my SP 2022, but I shoot them so much better that the transition never completely took. (The SP2022 is a great pistol, by the way, and I am so glad to be spending the time on it, because it is making this noob a much better shooter!!).

So as a result of the non-political, data driven approach to this subject, from folks who share my love of the 320 platform no less, I have now finally moved off the dime, called Sig, and my 2016 manufacture pistols will soon be on their way back for the VUP.

I'm very thankful for this forum, for the folks on it, and the wealth of information here which could never by amassed by a single individual, or purchased at any price.

L~