New 2 July 2020 SIG P320 Lawsuit and P320 Concerns

[Spartan1980]

He's spot on with the stamped vs. MIM claim. Good to hear someone else calling it out.

ETA: Actually it's nice to hear a "GunTuber" speak that actually knows specifics about manufacturing and his idea on this issue pretty much matches what I've thought all along.

[Suvorov]

It would appear that Ian has been following this thread as he seems to echo many of the comments and thoughts here. I will say that his assessment is 100% on track with mine although his obviously holds far more weight.

One question I have is that he mentioned that a Glock striker does not have enough energy to fire a round unless it is fully cocked, as I recall many here have said that it does? Is there a source for this either way?

He's spot on with the stamped vs. MIM claim. Good to hear someone else calling it out.

ETA: Actually it's nice to hear a "GunTuber" speak that actually knows specifics about manufacturing and his idea on this issue pretty much matches what I've thought all along.

Agree 1000%

I am glad to see Ian call him out! I was thinking maybe FocusTripp misspoke and meant $0.30 a pistol/part and never corrected that claim, but apparently he stands by it. But yeah, anyone with any engineering or manufacturing experience would know this claim is crap. Hell, anyone who has ever bought spare parts for their gun should know this claim is crap. But also, FocusTripp has been involved in some pretty scandalous claims before so I would take his claims with a grain of salt.

[Beretta Dawg]

But also, FocusTripp has been involved in some pretty scandalous claims before so I would take his claims with a grain of salt.

IMHO he can safely be tossed into the drama queen rubbish bin.

[feudist]

I would appear that Ian has been following this thread as he seems to echo many of the comments and thoughts here. I will say that his assessment is 100% on track with mine although his obviously holds far more weight.

One question I have is that he mentioned that a Glock striker does not have enough energy to fire a round unless it is fully cocked, as I recall many here have said that it does? Is there a source for this either way?




Agree 1000%

I am glad to see Ian call him out! I was thinking maybe FocusTripp misspoke and meant $0.30 a pistol/part and never corrected that claim, but apparently he stands by it. But yeah, anyone with any engineering or manufacturing experience would know this claim is crap. Hell, anyone who has ever bought spare parts for their gun should know this claim is crap. But also, FocusTripp has been involved in some pretty scandalous claims before so I would take his claims with a grain of salt.

There was a video by a guy who made a fixture to release the Glock striker and tested it with primed cartridges. It set them off reliably.

[Suvorov]

IMHO he can safely be tossed into the drama queen rubbish bin.

I’m tending to agree

There was a video by a guy who made a fixture to release the Glock striker and tested it with primed cartridges. It set them off reliably.

Thanks, I’ll look for it.

[Yute]

While correct regarding part's manufacturing, I'm not that impressed with Ian's understanding of the fundamental issues with the P320 design, i.e. the sear being able to move independent of the trigger and a less than ideal striker safety .

The Glock striker being partially cocked can still fire a cartridge if it falls in that state and the striker block bypassed. The critical difference between the 320 and Glock trigger design is its resting state the Glock's drop safety prevents movement of the combined trigger bar/sear unless the trigger is being pulled, whereas the 320 sear can move from an external force without trigger input. I have a feeling Sig is acutely aware of this issue which is why they added a second leg to the sear after the initial "upgrade" program, even though supposedly the issue was just trigger travel movement.

Combined with a striker safety lever that might either be moving with independent sear movement (ironically caused by the sear "upgrade"), or one that is not particularly robust, or the fact it takes only 0.09 inches of trigger travel to defeat the striker safety lock, the 320 design can result in a potential critical state where, if the sear moves by itself from an external force, the weapon will fire uncommanded.

Tolerance stacking will exacerbate any issues with critical surfaces or striker safety lever failures, but good QC only mitigates the issue, it does not eliminate the overall deficiency of the design.

[BN]

One question I have is that he mentioned that a Glock striker does not have enough energy to fire a round unless it is fully cocked, as I recall many here have said that it does? Is there a source for this either way?

I posted the results of my testing on P-F a long time ago. I removed the firing pin safety and modified the slot in the trigger mechanism housing. I then installed the armorer plate and pried up the trigger bar. It fired primed cases. In order for this to happen three separate components had to fail.

[Spartan1980]

It would appear that Ian has been following this thread as he seems to echo many of the comments and thoughts here. I will say that his assessment is 100% on track with mine although his obviously holds far more weight.

One question I have is that he mentioned that a Glock striker does not have enough energy to fire a round unless it is fully cocked, as I recall many here have said that it does? Is there a source for this either way?




Agree 1000%

I am glad to see Ian call him out! I was thinking maybe FocusTripp misspoke and meant $0.30 a pistol/part and never corrected that claim, but apparently he stands by it. But yeah, anyone with any engineering or manufacturing experience would know this claim is crap. Hell, anyone who has ever bought spare parts for their gun should know this claim is crap. But also, FocusTripp has been involved in some pretty scandalous claims before so I would take his claims with a grain of salt.

I have been thru the Glock armorer's course and IIRC Glock was designed for military NATO spec ammo. Hard NATO primers might be iffy igniting if the striker dropped from its normal carry position. Commercial primers wouldn't surprise me at all igniting, especially Federals with their more sensitive compound.

And yea, when I heard that $30 savings comment in the video the other day I just laughed and wrote the whole thing off. I do think there is an issue with the 320, but like everyone else, I haven't a clue what makes it dangerous and it's pretty apparent that most of the guns are likely fine considering how many are in the wild and used every day. I do hope it's figured out, I like Sig's products in general even though they are overpriced pretty considerably and I want them to succeed, but I just couldn't trust the 320 to carry it until the problem is identified.

[BPMan]

@Spartan1980, thank you sir for the linked vid!!!

[breakingtime91]

While correct regarding part's manufacturing, I'm not that impressed with Ian's understanding of the fundamental issues with the P320 design, i.e. the sear being able to move independent of the trigger and a less than ideal striker safety .

The Glock striker being partially cocked can still fire a cartridge if it falls in that state and the striker block bypassed. The critical difference between the 320 and Glock trigger design is its resting state the Glock's drop safety prevents movement of the combined trigger bar/sear unless the trigger is being pulled, whereas the 320 sear can move from an external force without trigger input. I have a feeling Sig is acutely aware of this issue which is why they added a second leg to the sear after the initial "upgrade" program, even though supposedly the issue was just trigger travel movement.

Combined with a striker safety lever that might either be moving with independent sear movement (ironically caused by the sear "upgrade"), or one that is not particularly robust, or the fact it takes only 0.09 inches of trigger travel to defeat the striker safety lock, the 320 design can result in a potential critical state where, if the sear moves by itself from an external force, the weapon will fire uncommanded.

Tolerance stacking will exacerbate any issues with critical surfaces or striker safety lever failures, but good QC only mitigates the issue, it does not eliminate the overall deficiency of the design.

Great post