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Thread: New 2 July 2020 SIG P320 Lawsuit and P320 Concerns

  1. #461
    Member Noah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickeness View Post
    This may have much to do with the fact that all the .mil guns have manual safeties affixed.

    The manual safety does nothing for the pre 2017 drop and impact ADs. But, it would be very helpful for the litany of in holster discharges we're seeing here where, more than likely, fingers or foreign objects are getting to the trigger.

  2. #462
    Site Supporter JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    Troops transitioning from M9 to M17/18 are trying to manage the new triggers like the M9. Bad habits they had gotten away with the longer and heavier trigger now result in the "usual" NDs from fiddling, but also early shots somewhere in the drawstroke. Insufficient transition time and reps, dry and live. Less an issue in those without M9 experience (or new to handguns).

    Also seen in some who ran an M9 for duty but carried striker guns CCW or on other jobs.
    And its ironic that all they have to do it run it like their M4s.
    "I’ve come to realize manual transmission cars and 1911s have something in common—a person who steals one probably won’t know how to use it." - Hideeho

  3. #463
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    Have we done this yet? Milwaukee PD union sues CITY over 320 issues. Basically saying they should have known about the problem. Seems like they’ve had 4 different discharges not caused by pulling the trigger.

    https://www.policemag.com/645746/mil...238i2894912e4v
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
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  4. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    And its ironic that all they have to do it run it like their M4s.
    You would think it should be that simple. I see non-combat arms troops though that can't run an M4. Trying to put mags in backwards.....not sure how to chamber a round, so they use the charging handle to release the bolt and they slowly ride it forward.....Not using the safety at all once they start qualification course......complete brain lock down on malfunctions...and so on. Many of these units qual once a year and view it as a box they need to check. I was in chagre of running the EST for a Best Warrior compitition this year and the AirForce sent some guys to compete. Once guy did not know how to operate an M4 at all. His unit had quickly gone over the M249 and M240B with him, but not the M4 or M18. I spent a couple hours trying to get him up to speed on the M4, but in the end he was supposed to have been trained and profecient before he showed up. Best I could get him to on the qual was a 21. His first attempt he shot a 2, so he did improve.

    Another time a Major showed up to qual on the M9. She advised me right from the start that her husband was a compitition shooter and he had trained her. She did not even know how to load and make ready. I worked with her an entire day and had her qualed at the end.

  5. #465
    Site Supporter JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by claymore504 View Post
    You would think it should be that simple. I see non-combat arms troops though that can't run an M4. Trying to put mags in backwards.....not sure how to chamber a round, so they use the charging handle to release the bolt and they slowly ride it forward.....complete brain lock down on malfunctions...and so on. Many of these units qual once a year and view it as a box they need to check. I was in chagre of running the EST for a Best Warrior compitition this year and the AirForce sent some guys to compete. Once guy did not know how to operate an M4 at all. His unit had quickly gone over the M249 and M240B with him, but not the M4 or M18. I spent a couple hours trying to get him up to speed on the M4, but in the end he was supposed to have been trained and profecient before he showed up. Best I could get him to on the qual was a 21. His first attempt he shot a 2, so he did improve.

    Another time a Major showed up to qual on the M9. She advised me right from the start that her husband was a compitition shooter and he had trained her. She did not even know how to load and make ready. I worked with her an entire day and had her qualed at the end.
    Yyow! Reminded me of the night fam fire of M16 circa 1982 - Air Defense/Maintenance troops - where a hand went up from a firing point and I got there about the time an NCO safety got there to inspect the stoppage. Loaded magazine inserted UPSIDE DOWN.

    OTOH I've gotten exposure to some young Infantrymen in recent years and watched them shoot. I asked where did you learn this stuff? It looks really solid. Answer was my squad leader or platoon sarge etc. That was M4 stance, forehand grip out front, mag changes, and on the pistol, solid thumbs high freestyle grip, solid mechanics on the pistol freestyle all the way around. And the hits were totally respectable as well. But that's Airborne Infantry.
    "I’ve come to realize manual transmission cars and 1911s have something in common—a person who steals one probably won’t know how to use it." - Hideeho

  6. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    Yyow! Reminded me of the night fam fire of M16 circa 1982 - Air Defense/Maintenance troops - where a hand went up from a firing point and I got there about the time an NCO safety got there to inspect the stoppage. Loaded magazine inserted UPSIDE DOWN.

    OTOH I've gotten exposure to some young Infantrymen in recent years and watched them shoot. I asked where did you learn this stuff? It looks really solid. Answer was my squad leader or platoon sarge etc. That was M4 stance, forehand grip out front, mag changes, and on the pistol, solid thumbs high freestyle grip, solid mechanics on the pistol freestyle all the way around. And the hits were totally respectable as well. But that's Airborne Infantry.
    Yeah, when I was in a school earlier this year with some fellow infantry guys from 101st, 10th Mountain and Ranger Reg and everyone was pretty solid indeed. One thing that did shock me is when we had to qual on the M4 the school house did not have optics, just iron sights. Those guys freaked out and said they had never used iron sights before. They all qulaed just fine though.

  7. #467
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    I give you the P320, now wait here is how it works: this little spring holds this spring, which keeps this from moving when this other little
    Spring here is held back just enough, then the other little spring… just seems like an overly complicated stupid design. Why make it so much harder.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Polecat View Post
    I give you the P320, now wait here is how it works: this little spring holds this spring, which keeps this from moving when this other little
    Spring here is held back just enough, then the other little spring… just seems like an overly complicated stupid design. Why make it so much harder.
    It was designed to have a 'nice' trigger from the get go. That's my understanding and Bruce Gray was involved on this. It seems they prioritized subjective feelings of what is 'shootable' that they managed to make it so 'shootable' that it shoots all by itself.

  9. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thy.Will.Be.Done View Post
    It was designed to have a 'nice' trigger from the get go. That's my understanding and Bruce Gray was involved on this. It seems they prioritized subjective feelings of what is 'shootable' that they managed to make it so 'shootable' that it shoots all by itself.
    I am curious, are Bruce Gray and Rick engineers or gunsmiths? If they are gunsmiths, offering ideas is one thing, designing and engineering guns an entirely other end of the spectrum. Also, just who were the “engineers” and how much experience did they have before they turned them loose on the 320?

  10. #470
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    Disregard. Had bad info and was too lazy to read the whole article. My bad and my apologies.
    Last edited by Lon; 09-23-2022 at 08:28 PM.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
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