Glock can do package deals through their distributors that include holsters, weapons, banded lights, etc. even if they’re not Glock branded. I’m sure Smith and Wesson and others do the same.Originally Posted by jeep45238
Glock can do package deals through their distributors that include holsters, weapons, banded lights, etc. even if they’re not Glock branded. I’m sure Smith and Wesson and others do the same.
Small arms budget of a department vs. DOD electronic warfare and radar company budgets for an entire military branch are vastly different stakes. Think renting out the museum of the Air Force, having honor guard after hours, feeding steak and lobster, and figuring who's about to leave the .mil and what connections exist for a DoD contractor to exploit.
That's not "come see our place and have some stuff". I've seen/done that, and I'm a nobody.
I also saw the above mentioned wine/dine/bribe as a jr. enlisted where the minimum rank for anyone at a table was full bird.
Branded vs. supplied vs. manufactured from the same company is vastly different as well - a Berry compliant DoD System is many levels above what you're referring to.
I am a nobody but got a small taste of being wined and dined, sorta. "We" were paying a local company to help facilitate our dealings with a company in Japan. When my boss and I showed up to Tokyo he got us from the airport to the hotel. And then the hotel to work and back everyday. EDIT: To be clear, we both had probably 7 layers up to the CEO, so not big players, not money guys, just Ops knuckleheads greasing the skids before a big det.
He told my boss and I that he wanted to take us out to thank us. He mentioned Mrs Santa Claus a few times.... uh ok!
Long story short, we end up a tiny bar that was in some random building, a few stories up. He bought a bottle of whiskey (which must have been $$$) and we each had a nice young lady sit with us, dressed up in like Mrs Santa Claus in a small red dress, who would fill our glasses, wipe the glasses with a towel, and attempt to have a nice conversation with us Gaijin. My boss at the time was older and married, not much of a drinker, and did not look he was enjoying himself.
Me, a young single dude, was trying to communicate with my new friend, with some success. She made fun of my Japanese, saying I was speaking too formal in what little I was able to throw at her. If my boss wasn't there I would have attempted to finish the bottle with our friends.
Anywho, it was fun. I imagined a few of the guys were Yakuza in the bar, probably from watching too much Black Rain as a kid. And yeah, I did not get my head cut off. Trip was a success, my boss was unaware I spoke a small bit of Japanese and could read the alphabet x2 with a 1st grade level of Kanji.
Back to the P320. I traded a 10.3" AR upper for a P320 fullsize, mostly stock he said with an Apex trigger. I am going to try and run through this thread to learn things. I have never shot one and figured what the hell.
My next step is to understand the pre and post upgrade parts. I want to see if this thing has been upgraded and hopefully get it to the range this weekend.
So far in dry fire it is pretty nice.
Nobody in the world spends more than the US DOD, but a few million from one department a few million from another and pretty soon you’re talking real money.
What Glock was doing was flying them to Atlanta, paying for their hotel, and paying for them to party at the Gold club not swinging by our place and here’s a keychain.
My organization is the largest user of the P320 outside the DOD I know exactly what I am referring to. The DOD is not the only organization that gives preference to Berry compliant products.
SIG is not an organization who should be throwing stones with regard to Berry compliance given the shenanigans they pulled with regard to “country of origin” in the last FBI carbine optic contract.
Last edited by HCM; 04-09-2024 at 09:45 PM.
A single AESA radar for a F16 costs 3.2 million dollars. The USAF has 841 operational F16's, with $2.6B of radar for those assets alone - and 2,231 of them have been built for the US since inception. In 2018, Glock was valued at 2.18B
The $2.6B is doesn't count any other planes, ships, vehicles, or munitions with radar, let alone the other electronic suites Raytheon makes. You're vastly underestimating the scale of what I'm talking about.
Munitions wise, Raytheon makes the AMRAAM, which has an active radar seeker onboard and costs $386,000 per unit. They make 500-800 of these per year - $193M to $308M worth of sales domestically, and more internationally. The job of that radar - to blow up and cease to exist.
Going to a factory doesn't matter at these dollar amounts. Who knows who, what program knowledge and access, proposed/approved programs, timelines, and sunsets matter. And that comes with rank.
Last edited by jeep45238; 04-09-2024 at 09:34 PM.
No shit - again nobody in the world spends more than the US DOD.
And the real money there is not in wining and dining. It’s in post retirement contracts / employment/ consulting etc.
You keep harping on the factory visit, the whole point of my post was Glock was spending into the five figures on visits at the strip club, the factory visit itself was irrelevant.
Unless you had some contractor, take you out and drop 10 or 15 grand on lap dances and bottle service we are not talking about the same thing.
Last edited by HCM; 04-09-2024 at 09:53 PM.
If you have the box, it should have the date of manufacturer on it somewhere. Anything June 2019 or later should be good to go.
If not, you should be able to call Sig, get the date of manufacturer and find out if it’s been through the VUP.
Aside from a tendency to lose rear sights when physically abused, I haven't seen any significant problems with M17's. We've had them for about 2 years now.
A close friend was an armorer responsible for ~250 M17's in his combat arms unit, and he told me something to the effect of 'they're the most boring weapon in my arms room - so long as you don't use it as a frisbee, it's fine'. His unit got them in 2020.
One of my former subordinates is now the armorer for a tracked armor company in Ft Carson - he too has had no issues with M17's, aside from loose rear sights that wiggle their way off and get lost occasionally.
Less than two weeks after I got back from Ft Novosel in mid-March, I ended up on a pistol range at McGregor Range complex, and once again teaching officers what little I know about shooting a pistol. We ran ~130 personnel through that pistol range in the day I was there, and there was a lot of ineptitude and problematic handling of handguns, but no ND's or any issues that couldn't be immediately traced to training failures (M9 muscle memory, especially with a lot of older personnel) or straight-up incompetence.
Interesting aside that I'm not sure has been mentioned here: The US Army issues the M17 as a complete kit, and no other way. This kit comes as the weapon itself with three magazines (two 21's, one 17) three mag pouches, and a matching FDE colored Safariland QLS L3 holster kit with a paddle base and a drop leg rig. I can't remember the specific Safariland model, I'll check the next time I'm in our arms room. The QLS forks make it a lot easier to deal with the admin handling required in a military setting.
So I'll be buying an M17 just for personal practice etc. Because I wholeheartedly agree that if there was a design flaw that led to a tendency to ND, we'd have seen it as an institutional problem in the Army by now.
Sounds like a “Jack of all trades, master of none” scenario.
Pretty close.Sounds like a “Jack of all trades, master of none” scenario.
Sig's good at proving something can be done, other companies are proof it can be done right.
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