I’m sure you are legally correct, but public opinion in the form of reputation is drives branding /marketing/sales. That whole gun companies exist to make money not guns thing.Originally Posted by Sero Sed Serio
I’m sure you are legally correct, but public opinion in the form of reputation is drives branding /marketing/sales. That whole gun companies exist to make money not guns thing.
I have been troubled the last few days seeing the P320 FCU get dissected by the Armorer's here, with some nagging doubts about how much all this may, or may not, be seen in my two P365s.
Obviously getting redirected by experts like @HCM and others about the lack of NDs with the P365 was comforting. Hearing other armorers like @KevH and @lwt16 was also extremely helpful. But I still had these scary weird thoughts in the deep crevices of my lizard brain about all this, because as a hands on learner I didn't "know", in touchy-feely terms. Being fairly risk averse by nature, I was seriously wondering about whether I'd have to rejoin GSSF.
So I just spent a useful hour comparing one of my P365 FCUs with the Sig Guy's P365 and P320 FCU disassembly videos, which was the best source I could fine online. I didn't take any parts off my P365 FCU, that was a bit too scary. But I was really struck by how different in execution the two FCUs are. Obviously these are uneducated comments by a random .civ geezer, and I only had the 320 video to compare, but I was shocked, really, by how "agricultural" the P320 FCU was designed/assembled/put together by comparison. The P365 parts and housing looked tightly built, to reasonably accurate tolerances (I assume lots of MIM parts); the P320 looked like it was done by a high school shop class in metal stamping. The 320 TRS is hanging out in the open, almost as an afterthought, the P365 spring is tucked in and under the FCU. The ejector on the P365 is this solid piece of MIM molded into the body of the FCU, the ejector on the 320 is a little steel protrusion stamped when the sheet metal is formed. The P320 sear housing is a little assembly that inserts into the back of the FCU, the sear in the P365 runs within a purpose-milled area at the back of the FCU. I also looked in detail at the firing pin safety block operation in the P365. I also checked my holsters, and the tight fit (JM CK, Vedder, RCS) offers adequate protection against a foreign object ND far as I can tell. I'd never looked quite so closely at my FCU before and this was really eye opening, for me. Decided to keep the P365s and get on with life.
Anyway, back to the 320.
@RJ
They are quite different aren't they?
The P320 is really meant to be an armory gun to meet the MHS contract.
The original P365 was meant to be a S&W Shield and Glock 43 killer.
Both succeeded in their aims and both did so in their own separate ways.
I took the P320 and P365 armorer classes back to back. Think about being an armorer caring for a few hundred guns. I would prefer to take the P320 over P365 every time. The P365 on the other hand needs to be as compact as possible. That's why they are so totally different internally.
I wouldn't sweat carrying a P365. I carry one myself. It is proving to be very sound (although more complex) design.
Agreed. I have confidence in the design of the 365. Particularly in the striker safety block.
For me, the 365 solves problems whereas the 320 didn’t. I have multiple brands that are similar in size/capacity to the 320 that simply shoot better for me.
Another thing to keep in mind is the 320 is essentially hamstrung by using 250 architecture, so a lot of parts were designed to fit in the space the 250 already had. Fundamentally the 320 is a striker retrofit to the 250. The 365 was a clean sheet striker design without the compromises needed to fit into existing architecture. In a lot of ways it benefited from the lessons learned from the 320. If not for the MHS locking in the 320, I suspect Sig would have phased out the 320 soon/by now in favor of a new bigger/iterative improved version of the 365 that does not suffer the design compromises from the 250’s legacy.
Anything I post is my opinion alone as a private citizen.
Are the Custom Works FCU's built to tighter tolerances? Are they safer/better than the stock units? Do the Legion or Signature pistols get a different FCU?
Not sure about tighter tolerances but my wife uses the Custom Works FCU a with just a few tweaks in lieu of any other trigger in her competition Legion pistols. She feels like they give a good and reliable trigger, and no longer use Gray Guns, Armory Craft or Sig Armorer triggers.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
A local deputy is on trial for killing a driver at the end of a pursuit. He’s claiming the 320 went off without pulling the trigger. Article doesn’t name the model of the pistol, but the 320 is their issued pistol.
I’m watching it live.
https://www.youtube.com/live/T5XcwrtfrcQ?feature=share
https://www.highlandcountypress.com/...cide#gsc.tab=0
Formerly known as xpd54.
The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
www.gunsnobbery.wordpress.com
The only difference with the Custom Works FCU is the coating. They are identical to the LE FCU's and to the X5 Legion otherwise.
The differences with FCU's are the rolling changes that have taken place over time (such as making all new FCU's capable of accepting a manual safety...which should have been done in the first place). There have been a frustratingly large amount of tiny changes that have occurred to the FCU's (and the striker assembly) from the time the guns were released through about mid 2022 when changes started to calm down a bit.
I'm all for improving products, but some of this seems like it could have been flushed out better. It takes Glock and H&K years to release a new model and often it feels late when they do. The benefit is that normally nothing needs to be upgraded and when something does, the factory tends to be pretty transparent and lets departments know about it (I say usually...there have been shenanigans with Glock in the past). Modern SIG has been very innovative, but like I said elsewhere once you buy a gun from them it feels like it is already basically obsolete. Imagine if you are a small town police department that buys 30 guns and doesn't have a dedicated Training Unit. Are you going to stay up on all the little changes to the FCU and is SIG going to even tell you? Forget about being notified of anything if you are the average consumer.
There are no differences between the different FCU's except for the finish on the Custom Works FCU's, triggers or manual safety. All the FCU's produced in August 2023 are essentially identical outside of that.
@KevH Thanks for that. I have precisely one 320, and it's an X5 legion that I bought in 2022 for a training gun. It's been a great pistol so far
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