320 manual safety only blocks the trigger bar.Originally Posted by APS-PF
The manual safety doesn’t prevent Striker / striker safety issues (like the drop safe issues with original design p320s).
320 manual safety only blocks the trigger bar.
The manual safety doesn’t prevent Striker / striker safety issues (like the drop safe issues with original design p320s).
P365 has a better striker block/safety spring and plunger.
As previously mentioned, I suspect the 320’s spring and striker safety lever design is inferior to the 365.
Opinion.
But have long suspected that is why the 365 is drama free so far as discharging only when the trigger is pulled.
And yet, we haven’t seemed to have heard about .mil guns going off with any regularity and if anyone is a prime candidate for NDs of holstered firearms, Snuffy is.
Also, wasn’t the primary driver of the drops causing the ND was that the triggers mass was sufficient to have enough inertia to complete the trigger pull when dropped, thus prompting the trigger redesign?
Well yes and no. As LE we have our pistols on us 8,10, or 12 plus hours a day, almost every day. Military doesn't carry their pistol anywhere near as much therefor their odds of having an issue is exponentially less.And yet, we haven’t seemed to have heard about .mil guns going off with any regularity and if anyone is a prime candidate for NDs of holstered firearms, Snuffy is.
Also, wasn’t the primary driver of the drops causing the ND was that the triggers mass was sufficient to have enough inertia to complete the trigger pull when dropped, thus prompting the trigger redesign?
Also the VUP was not only to replace the trigger and striker with lightened versions, they also added a disconnector which the original version did not have, along with a couple of revised parts. The disconnector was to address the reported possible out of battery detonations.
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What's the SOP currently for loaded chambers for pistols in the "big" military now?And yet, we haven’t seemed to have heard about .mil guns going off with any regularity and if anyone is a prime candidate for NDs of holstered firearms, Snuffy is.
Also, wasn’t the primary driver of the drops causing the ND was that the triggers mass was sufficient to have enough inertia to complete the trigger pull when dropped, thus prompting the trigger redesign?
I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
As discussed up thread - you haven’t heard about it does mean - not happening. In fact Doc GKR has alluded to these incidents on PF.And yet, we haven’t seemed to have heard about .mil guns going off with any regularity and if anyone is a prime candidate for NDs of holstered firearms, Snuffy is.
Also, wasn’t the primary driver of the drops causing the ND was that the triggers mass was sufficient to have enough inertia to complete the trigger pull when dropped, thus prompting the trigger redesign?
The trigger weight of the original 320s was only part of the problem. The original 320 fire control group design did not have a disconnector. That’s why they had that “clicky” trigger everyone liked so much for dry fire.
Redesigning the FCG to add a disconnector was the most significant aspect of the VUP / post VUP design.
As @JoeTom mentioned up thread the USAF (by far the biggest users of pistols for conventional forces) Carry the M18 the same as the Beretta, Chamber loaded, Safety Off.
My understanding is both the Army and USMC carry chamber loaded safety on.
I hate saying there are a lot of departments that don't care, but I think that is the case.
A lot of places do pistol selection based on ease of purchase or on the chief, admin, or one person's personal preference.
It's my understanding that CHP stayed with the 3rd Gen S&W even after it was essentially a dead platform and went so far as to convince S&W to make them the special all stainless one-off CHP 4006 with an integral rail because of two old farts in Sacramento. Was that pistol a wise choice? Not at all, but those two people had an extreme amount of influence when a huge majority of end users were pushing for the Glock or M&P. It took a couple retirements for them to get the M&P 1.0 40 S&W (after the M&P 2.0 had already been released and the vast majority of departments were switching to 9mm). Such is the way these things often go...
SIG publicly is going to point the finger at Safariland and Safariland is going to publicly point the finger at SIG and they are collectively both going to blame the end user who had the ND.
My personal opinion is that all three share some degree of the blame.
What will likely happen is that SIG will continue to make quiet incremental changes without ever admitting fault (see Glock Gen3 40 S&W), Safariland will release a new holster (the SafariVault has already been released to supposedly address their issue) while folks that have already bought both the gun and holster will continue to have ND's until the equipment gets phased out.
...and we will all continue to argue about it around the range table and in our online forum here.
While I agree the P365 is a better (although more complex) design, it also isn't being carried in plastic bucket duty holsters (with a bunch of moving parts inside for retention) everyday with a light attached.
Right now they are typically carried in a form fitting holster that completely covers the trigger the guard.
I have a sneaking suspicion if there were folks carrying the P365 XMacro in 6360RDS or 7360RDS you would start to see some of the same problems.
For a Combat Arms MOS in the Army or USMC, I think you are correct. But when you talk about Army or USMC Military Police, Navy Master-at-Arms, or USAF Security Forces, we carry our weapons about as much as you all for equally long shifts. Globally, that's a lot of M18s going through armory windows and into holsters every day. Granted, we don't hold near as many people at gunpoint, or scuffle with as many suspects as a civ police dept. But there are just as many opportunities for administrative gun-handling errors when you account for every troop having an issued gun to load and unload at a clearing barrel for each duty day.
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