New 2 July 2020 SIG P320 Lawsuit and P320 Concerns

[HCM]

https://storage.courtlistener.com/re....60338.1.0.pdf

Attachment 97934

Wasn’t sure if this had come up lately, since it appears to be filed in last few days?

There is some intentionally vague misleading and some instances outright false information in that affidavit.

They are including many “SIG Sauer” incidents that predate the 320 and/or do not even involve striker fired handguns. For example the 10 NYPD NDs all involved DAO P226s.

One outright lie is the 2015 PA state police incident listed which involved a SIG P227 DA/SA. The attached complaint claims the trooper was killed by a SIG that went off without the trigger being touched, however that is 100% false. Not only did the trooper who killed the other trooper during training pull the trigger, he was criminally charged for doing so.

https://www.police1.com/police-produ...WY5tBUHKV4gtH/

I believe @Mas did a write up on the PA case.

Let’s just say I’m confident at least three of the plaintiff’s incidents did not happen as described in this complaint or the description is incomplete. For example, the fact that they did not put their finger on the trigger is a true statement, but they are leaving out the fact that the gun went off because the trigger was pulled by foreign object.

[TCinVA]

The hits keep coming:

https://www.wisn.com/article/federal...tings/42117573

[WobblyPossum]

The hits keep coming:

https://www.wisn.com/article/federal...tings/42117573

I’d bet a paycheck this one was an ND.

[Tokarev]

Haven't noticed this posted yet here on P-F but there are several 320 threads.



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[HCM]

The hits keep coming:

https://www.wisn.com/article/federal...tings/42117573

I’d bet a paycheck this one was an ND.

Same.

This one was previously posted in the P320 poll thread.

unfortunately NDs are a regular / constant thing in LE and have been with DA/SA, DAO, LEM and DAK guns in the past.

The major difference here you didn’t have anyone motivated to try to get a free payday out of their ND with those systems.

[HCM]

Haven't noticed this posted yet here on P-F but there are several 320 threads.



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The actual complaint is linked in post 540 of this thread.

[Tokarev]

[Madnik]

I’d be curious to know (a) what is the mandated training these personnel were supposed to receive regarding transitioning from the pistols they used to the p320, (b) what training they actually received, (c) the amount and type of pistol pistol training they are supposed to receive on a annual basis, (d) the amount and type of training they actually receive, and (e) at the time the of the discharges how did what they were doing and how were they dressed compare to those training environments? Oh, and (f) what were the historical rates of negligent discharges with preceding transition programs and how they compare to the current process?

Because I’ve seen garments make their way into concealment holsters some people usually don’t train with, and sling tails into weapon mounted light holsters others don’t usually train with, numbsculls get in the triggers too soon or forget to get off them going to the holster, and so on.

[AMC]

I'm frankly more curious right now about the 'Signade' phenomenon being described by several competition shooters on various social media. They all seem to involve shattering the grip frame at the top if the grip, and splintering of the polymer frame around the FCU. As @HCM previously posted in the meme, this has happened with other polymer pistols as well, almost always due to an improper/double charge reloaded round. Stoeger recently posted a pic of a cracked grip frame as well. The TXG Legion frames are known and acknowledged by Sig to be more brittle than the standard frames. When we had our rep and two of the LE side VPs out to our department to discuss some things, Tom Jankowicz didn't even wanna let the rep SHOW me a 320 Legion, because he didn't want it being thought of as a duty gun. He flat out say it was not suitable for that role. And I made it clear it was just a personal request since I was interested in another competition platform.

I think its likely this 'new' phenomenon is again due to ammo, though some reports indicate factory ammo as well has been implicated. That might indicate a weakness in the grip frame design, either in materials or construction. I think the relative lack of support for the case in 320 barrels compared to other brands may contribute to this as well.

[Sammy1]

I’d be curious to know (a) what is the mandated training these personnel were supposed to receive regarding transitioning from the pistols they used to the p320, (b) what training they actually received, (c) the amount and type of pistol pistol training they are supposed to receive on a annual basis, (d) the amount and type of training they actually receive, and (e) at the time the of the discharges how did what they were doing and how were they dressed compare to those training environments? Oh, and (f) what were the historical rates of negligent discharges with preceding transition programs and how they compare to the current process?

Because I’ve seen garments make their way into concealment holsters some people usually don’t train with, and sling tails into weapon mounted light holsters others don’t usually train with, numbsculls get in the triggers too soon or forget to get off them going to the holster, and so on.

For the incident above (Massachusetts) officers are required to fire 100 rounds per year, 50 qualification course and 50 rounds other (can be a Q course but recommended it be something else) in two training sessions annually, something like 50 in the spring and 50rds in the fall... Some departments struggle to do the minimum required and others go far past that. Most departments require plain clothes/off duty holsters to be department approved with the most popular in Massachusetts being the Safariland ALS system.