New 2 July 2020 SIG P320 Lawsuit and P320 Concerns

[AMC]

Well, I finally took the plunge and purchased a P320 (Born on date of 5/21). After much research (Much thanks to lwt16 and HCM for their research into the matter) I feel fairly confident that the underlying issues have been resolved. I think lwt16's and HCM's observations regarding the old dimpled sear and the engagement with the springs and the old safety lever spring (no longer used) may indeed be the underlying factors. One thing I noted when I had the firearm field stripped to inspect it was that it does not take much upward movement of the striker block for the striker to clear. So, I can very easily see where goobered up old safety lever springs combined with the accumulation of some grime over time might prevent the safety lever from returning to it's normal position, thus allowing enough upward positioning for the striker to clear the block. Add enough force or vibration, and I can visualize a BANG! I don't have it in the CCW rotation for now as I want to run it through the paces first, but I am cautiously optimistic that this will be a fairly good firearm.

I'm wondering if and when they changed the strength of the safety lock spring. The ones on our samples are fairly stiff for a tiny fiddly bit. As you noted, not a lot of movement is required to disengage the safety lock, but deliberate pressure needs to be applied. We have NOT been able to create an uncommanded discharge by impacts on any part of the gun. And we've beat the snot out of some guns.

What worries me is small parts manufacturing quality and consistency. Is it a "Not every gun...but a few" type of issue? That would make it unacceptable.

Still working on this.

[roboster2013]

I'm wondering if and when they changed the strength of the safety lock spring. The ones on our samples are fairly stiff for a tiny fiddly bit. As you noted, not a lot of movement is required to disengage the safety lock, but deliberate pressure needs to be applied. We have NOT been able to create an uncommanded discharge by impacts on any part of the gun. And we've beat the snot out of some guns.

What worries me is small parts manufacturing quality and consistency. Is it a "Not every gun...but a few" type of issue? That would make it unacceptable.

Still working on this.

Indeed, I did notice that for a single coil torsion spring the striker block spring on my 320 had a fair amount of resistance, more than I expected from looking at pictures of the spring. So, it would be interesting to know if that was one of the changes that Sig made. If the striker block spring originally had less resistance, then a goobered up safety lever spring could conceivably cause enough resistance to have the striker block high enough to allow the striker to move forward. This could also explain why there haven't been wholesale ADs with the 320, and why it has been so difficult to replicate. The most common number of "uncommanded discharges" cited in the various lawsuits is I think somewhere around 54. If we are generous towards the users and assume 90% of those are actually NDs, that leaves us with about 6 ADs. I think that's fairly close to the number of incidents where the known facts make a ND questionable. The one thing we do know for sure is that Sig got rid of the safety lever spring for some reason. Unfortunately, I don't think Sig is likely to let us know.

[zpelletier]

https://www.wcvb.com/article/second-...court/39854801

Is this old news?

Are these cases likely older P320s? I feel like this shouldn’t still be happening

[stinx]

https://www.wcvb.com/article/second-...court/39854801

Is this old news?

Are these cases likely older P320s? I feel like this shouldn’t still be happening

THis happened very recently. within the last three months

[JonInWA]

Too little information from us to glean much; key things: Date of P320 production, had the gun undergone the VUP if applicable to production date, holster used?

Best, Jon

[LowLead]

Since this is a matter of public interest, and this was a public official working on the clock, and the incident was caught on CCTV, I suppose one could submit a public records request for the footage. It's baffling to me how this could happen to an upgraded P320, in a holster designed for a P320. I've expressed concern over the single failure point on the P365, but the P320 has a drop safety that works independently from the striker lug or trigger bar, making it quite safe IMO.

[Bucky]

but the P320 has a drop safety that works independently from the striker lug or trigger bar, making it quite safe IMO.

Considering the history, I think quite safe is a stretch.

Even without the history, by design I’d think that quite safe is still a stretch.

[LowLead]

Even without the history, by design I’d think that quite safe is still a stretch.

Care to expand on that?

[Bucky]

Even without the history, by design I’d think that quite safe is still a stretch.

Care to expand on that?

Perhaps it’s an interpretation of the wording, but “quite safe” to me means above average safety, safer than other designs. To be clear, my opinions expressed here are for the models that do not have a manual safety. While many consider the design safe (post “upgrade”), I would consider a good percentage of other designs safer. YMMV.

[LowLead]

I would consider a good percentage of other designs safer. YMMV.

Certainly a Ruger Security Six would be safer.

As far as run-of-the-mill striker fired handguns go, I do consider it quite safe. At least two parts would need to fail simultaneously for the gun to fire uncommanded in the holster due to some sort of mechanical failure. That’s both sear surfaces OR the striker lug, and the striker drop safety. This is the same amount of redundancies as the Glock Safe Action. A striker drop safety (commonly referred to as a safety plunger), and either the cruciform OR the striker lug.

This is in terms of the gun being able to fire without the trigger being pulled, which is what the plaintiff appears to be alleging.