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Thread: New 2 July 2020 SIG P320 Lawsuit and P320 Concerns

  1. #301
    There has got to be Body Camera or security footage of at least one of these instances.

    Every time I start thinking maybe I will ditch the Glock this thread has more posts.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by call_me_ski View Post
    There has got to be Body Camera or security footage of at least one of these instances.

    Every time I start thinking maybe I will ditch the Glock this thread has more posts.
    There is of some of them. That's how the FL SRO cafeteria incident was determined to be an ND. Deputy claimed the gun "just went off uncommanded in the holster" but security video showed he actually was fiddle fucking with it in and out of the holster.

    However, cameras are not the 100% solution TV detective shows would lead you to believe.

    There were other's that were witnessed. One, which involved a member of my agency was cited in the July lawsuit even though it was both witnessed as an ND and the Agent admitted fault. The other was witnessed and determined to be an ND based on the witnesses and examination of the pistol but that dude filed a bullshit lawsuit hoping to get paid.

    I will say if you try a P320, buy new, or at least nothing older than 2019.

  3. #303
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    The "uncommanded discharge" of a SEPA sergeant's 320 was caught on security video.

  4. #304
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    Living across the Golden Bridge , and through the Rainbow Tunnel, somewhere north of Fantasyland.
    Quote Originally Posted by jnc36rcpd View Post
    The "uncommanded discharge" of a SEPA sergeant's 320 was caught on security video.
    Not exactly....at least not from the video I've seen. The video I saw was from inside a store, and didn't show the officer or his pistol at all. Frustrating....as was my discussion with the head of their training division when I called them about it. To say that he was ignorant of firearms function and terminology would be an understatement. I've found that this is usually true when following up on these spontaneous discharge cases. I'm not saying that any individual case didn't happen....just that usually the.people I've spoken to at those agencies don't have the knowledge to explain what happened or why. That may be a clue.

    I've also heard from some very credible people who've reached out to me, saying that some of these incidents involving current manufacure LE guns show a systemic problem. I've asked on.this forum several times if someone can tell me HOW these discharges are occurring mechanically, or HOW to replicate the problem in testing....but I've received no response. I'm not a 'fan' of any particular striker pistol over others, and if there is a systemic issue I need to know about it. So far...we have been unable to cause any of the commonly attributed 'bangs' with the 320s in our inventory. Small sample so far, but we haven't been able to make them fire out of battery, cause an impact discharge, or a 'dead trigger. I also absolutely would not trust an original design 320....or even, as HCM noted, an 'upgraded' one.

    Still willing to listen if someone can tell me how to make one of these things spontaneously go bang. We're looking to buy a bunch of the damn things....I really need to know if the current guns still have the problem.

  5. #305
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    You're right. AMC. I knew I'd seen video of the incident, but none of it did show the actual discharge.

    I would say that no one would be fooling around with the duty pistol in a crowded subway platform retail area, but I also would have said that no one would be fooling with their holstered pistol in a school cafeteria.

    I do think, however, that the SEPTA incident was a weapon failure rather than officer negligence.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnc36rcpd View Post
    You're right. AMC. I knew I'd seen video of the incident, but none of it did show the actual discharge.

    I would say that no one would be fooling around with the duty pistol in a crowded subway platform retail area, but I also would have said that no one would be fooling with their holstered pistol in a school cafeteria.

    I do think, however, that the SEPTA incident was a weapon failure rather than officer negligence.
    The SEPTA incident may indeed be an 'uncommanded discharge'. Clearly, many of these incidents are legit, and involve design flaws in the earlier production guns. And I totally agree that Sig Corporate handled the issue in the worst possible way. I'm also with HCM as I said, in that I wouldn't trust even an 'upgraded' early production 320. We have had no issues so far with our small sample of current production 320 Pro LE guns, and our instructors like the guns so far. Several of them much more than the Glocks, Smiths and HK's we evaluated (though those opinions are far from universal).

    Some very credible, respected people have told me they believe that the guns still have a systemic design flaw that makes them unsafe. Some other very credible people love the guns and insist current production guns are good to go. We've had zero issues so far with the ones we have. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem....just that we haven't found it. We pretty much know now what design flaws caused the problems in the earlier production guns, and understand how unintended discharges/dead triggers could occur. No one has been able to explain to me or my armorers how the current production guns could have the same issues, mechanically speaking. Again...that doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. If someone can explain how they're able to produce the malfunction in testing, I'm all ears. Seriously. I love me some M&P guns too.

    So far, all I'm getting is "There's a systemic problem. It happens. The current guns are still problematic." I need to be able to demonstrate that problem to move us in another direction.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post

    Some very credible, respected people have told me they believe that the guns still have a systemic design flaw that makes them unsafe. Some other very credible people love the guns and insist current production guns are good to go.
    An armorer with a large city (600+ officer) PD told me this past weekend that he is satisfied that the current production guns are good to go, but he also told me that he wouldn't carry one as a CCW unless it was a manual safety model.

    I just can't get a read on these 320s. I want to try one, but I just can't bring myself to do it.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  8. #308
    Well, I finally took the plunge and purchased a P320 (Born on date of 5/21). After much research (Much thanks to lwt16 and HCM for their research into the matter) I feel fairly confident that the underlying issues have been resolved. I think lwt16's and HCM's observations regarding the old dimpled sear and the engagement with the springs and the old safety lever spring (no longer used) may indeed be the underlying factors. One thing I noted when I had the firearm field stripped to inspect it was that it does not take much upward movement of the striker block for the striker to clear. So, I can very easily see where goobered up old safety lever springs combined with the accumulation of some grime over time might prevent the safety lever from returning to it's normal position, thus allowing enough upward positioning for the striker to clear the block. Add enough force or vibration, and I can visualize a BANG! I don't have it in the CCW rotation for now as I want to run it through the paces first, but I am cautiously optimistic that this will be a fairly good firearm.
    Last edited by roboster2013; 09-13-2021 at 06:36 AM.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by roboster2013 View Post
    Well, I finally took the plunge and purchased a P320 (Born on date of 5/21). After much research (Much thanks to lwt16 and HCM for their research into the matter) I feel fairly confident that the underlying issues have been resolved. I think lwt16's and HCM's observations regarding the old dimpled sear and the engagement with the springs and the old safety lever spring (no longer used) may indeed be the underlying factors. One thing I noted when I had the firearm field stripped to inspect it was that it does not take much upward movement of the striker block for the striker to clear. So, I can very easily see where goobered up old safety lever springs combined with the accumulation of some grime over time might prevent the safety lever from returning to it's normal position, thus allowing enough upward positioning for the striker to clear the block. Add enough force or vibration, and I can visualize a BANG! I don't have it in the CCW rotation for now as I want to run it through the paces first, but I am cautiously optimistic that this will be a fairly good firearm.
    You should be good to go with one made then. Let us know how you like it.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by lwt16 View Post
    You should be good to go with one made then. Let us know how you like it.
    I took it to the range yesterday for its first outing, and it did quite well. It has a very nice trigger. Very smooth, not too light but not heavy either. So far, I'm pretty pleased.

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