Buffer question(s)

[Casual Friday]

Whoever pissed in your Cheerios this morning swiped your manners too.

FACT: Since the XM177, the CAR buffer was standard until the Colt 920. Over 30 years of Colt carbine models from the XM177 to the 723/733 never had an issue with a CAR buffer.

FACT: The M4 Program introduced the H buffer and M4 feedramps to fix feed issues in full auto. Colt fixed the issues with either the feedramps or the H buffer, leaving a redundancy. The feed issues were all under full auto conditions, there was NOT an issue in semi-auto only with the M4 Carbine.

FACT: M4A1 received the H2 buffer after issues due to full auto and the heavier barrel profile. Once again, there was NO issues in semi-auto with the M4A1.

FACT: H3 buffers were designed for the Colt IAR. There were NEVER designed for a DI AR-15, only a meme piston AR.

Now, last I checked, there ain't a COTS AR-15 with a happy switch. There is NO need for a heavy buffer on a semi-auto only AR15. There were not engineered because you have an under/over gassed AR or there was a problem with the CAR buffer.

Cool story bro. In 2020, what reputable AR manufacturers are using carbine buffers? By reputable I don't mean PSA, Spikes, or Anderson.

[Casual Friday]

I have never seen a problem that was directly related to the buffer. I will agree you can smooth up the recoil impulse with a heavier buffer, but I will retain that it is not needed for proper function.

There is a problematic issue in the AR world that can be viewed in this very forum. People get an AR and start changing shit before they even fire it because Brand Y is shit, you need Brand X widget to make a M4gery not fall apart in your hands. Let alone people with functional AR-15s that read forums and buy into the marketing side instead of 60 years of government development and actually shooting their functional AR-15. It's not an firearm issue, but marketing bullshit that can be found in motor vehicles, guitars, and anything else where the tangible goods can last for lifetimes.

That is a pretty bold statement to make considering the vast majority of PF members are shooters and base their suggestions on personal experience.

[Wonder9]

Cool story bro. In 2020, what reputable AR manufacturers are using carbine buffers? By reputable I don't mean PSA, Spikes, or Anderson.

Do you have a retort on the history and engineering of the CAR buffer? Because I just read some Facebook gun group horseshit response "BRAND X DOESN'T USE IT SO IT'S SHIT".

The H and H2 buffers were created to fix issues due to fully automatic fire in the 920 series. That is historical fact without emotion.

[Casual Friday]

Do you have a retort on the history and engineering of the CAR buffer? Because I just read some Facebook gun group horseshit response "BRAND X DOESN'T USE IT SO IT'S SHIT".

The H and H2 buffers were created to fix issues due to fully automatic fire in the 920 series. That is historical fact without emotion.

Who said anything about doubting the origins? I'm talking about real world application in 2020, or even the last decade. What reputable manufacturers supply their rifles with carbine buffers?

[Wonder9]

That is a pretty bold statement to make considering the vast majority of PF members are shooters and base their suggestions on personal experience.

And my personal experience is people want to swap parts before they even vet what they have because they read it on the internet. Open nearly any "My new Glock is malfunctioning" thread and it's because it's all aftermarket parts. Just like I'm sure there was a respected PF member that probably recommended a BAD lever.

[Casual Friday]

And my personal experience is people want to swap parts before they even vet what they have because they read it on the internet. Open nearly any "My new Glock is malfunctioning" thread and it's because it's all aftermarket parts. Just like I'm sure there was a respected PF member that probably recommended a BAD lever.

That almost never happens on PF.

[Wonder9]

Who said anything about doubting the origins? I'm talking about real world application in 2020, or even the last decade. What reputable manufacturers supply their rifles with carbine buffers?

BRO, WHY DO MANUFACTURERS FOLLOW TDP AND ECONOMY OF SCALE?

You are taking the discussion on a tangent that does not follow my statement. My argument is any properly-built AR-15 carbine can use a CAR buffer. The heavy buffers were designed for automatic fire issues and the only AR carbines that truly benefit from an H would be an upper without M4 feedramps.

[Wonder9]

That almost never happens on PF.

Almost is the key word. PF is an awesome site with awesome shooters, but we are all human.

Regardless, I'll still stand by my point that buffer weights are largely pointless on an AR-15 carbine due to it being semi-auto only. I would concede that they are requirements if you have a select fire M4 or M4A1.

[Wake27]

I’ve been running my AR pistols (all with 11.5-12.5” barrels) with carbine buffers, and zero problems. Other than shooting softer, is there a reason to start fiddling around with other buffers? Again, I’ve had no reliability issues whatsoever, so if ain’t broke...

I also make it a point to shoot 5.56 (not .223) and generally avoid cheap ammo if that matters.

I skimmed the SBR/pistol thread and didn’t see this addressed directly.


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I’d go heavier. I’ve experimented a fair amount and really haven’t noticed too much difference honestly so I just like to be somewhere in the middle. CAR and H3 are on opposite ends just as A5H0 and A5H4 are so I like somewhere around the H-H2 or A5H2-A5H3. The only thing I can say for certain is that changing springs and changing buffers is not the same thing. They’re obviously related but putting in a green spring and A5H1 is not the same thing as a standard rifle spring and A5H2.

Realistically the recommendation of whatever your upper’s manufacturer recommends is probably the best one, seeing as how you have solid uppers. They’ll probably recommend a light buffer anyways since they want their guns to run but I’d be surprised if BCM didn’t use at least an H buffer in their 11.5s.

On the emotional argument about necessity, it’s the same as always. Colt 6920 works so it’s fine, but KAC SR-15 is going to be better. Just depends if you want to spend the money and accept whatever risk there is from diverting from “fine.” In this instance, it’s not even $50 unless you start toying with the A5 system, is easy to put back to how it was if it doesn’t work, and assuming you’re able to test it enough to feel confident in it, there’s really not a downside.

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[Casual Friday]

BRO, WHY DO MANUFACTURERS FOLLOW TDP AND ECONOMY OF SCALE?

You are taking the discussion on a tangent that does not follow my statement. My argument is any properly-built AR-15 carbine can use a CAR buffer. The heavy buffers were designed for automatic fire issues and the only AR carbines that truly benefit from an H would be an upper without M4 feedramps.

Who said a properly built AR15 wouldn't run with a carbine buffer? Nobody in this thread. You said

Buffer weight is pointless on a semi-auto AR.

That's an incredibly foolish statement. If you'd said they weren't necessary for function, that would be a different story. My rifles, factory built or by me, from reputable manufacturers will all run on a carbine buffer. They run smoother with heavier buffers. To say anything other than a carbine buffer is pointless is borderline fudd lore similar to .45acp stoppin powah.

Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, SOLGW, Geissele, LMT, all use H or heavier buffers. Are they wrong? What do you know that they don't?