Flashlight Techniques

[justintime]

Nyeti - I was taught to apply pressure in harries by squeezing the back of your hands together. I also was told to tuck the elbows in which gives even more pressure. Is that what your talking about or is there another way?

[Dagga Boy]

Yep. You use the support side elbow moving inboard to generate the "torque". Most folks are simply placing the shooting hand on top of the wrist of the support wrist, or if they have the backs of their hands together, they are only applying side to side pressure and not using the support elbow to "lock" them. Done correctly, you cannot hold the shooting position long. The key is how long does it take for an actual engagement? Not long.

One of the other benefits is that you can retract Harries into retention. In the bar shooting I was in I pulled off one non-compliant from a full extended Harries to retracted the platform to turn and shoot a second suspect who went from compliant to drawing a pistol. When I turned, due to range I collapsed the Harries into retention, but the elbow was still controlling the hand tension.

[Casual Friday]

And to think that I typed, then edited out, something to the effect of "how to address that, other than 'get stronger'?"

Where's a facepalm emoticon when you need one? {sigh}

I was just bustin' your chops, no offense intended.

Back to topic, the two threads about flashlight techniques have been really informative. I thought I knew the more bestest betterest way to implement the Harries but alas I did not.

[TheTrevor]

Yep. You use the support side elbow moving inboard to generate the "torque". Most folks are simply placing the shooting hand on top of the wrist of the support wrist, or if they have the backs of their hands together, they are only applying side to side pressure and not using the support elbow to "lock" them. Done correctly, you cannot hold the shooting position long. The key is how long does it take for an actual engagement? Not long.

Harries "clicked" for me after I read that and gave it another try, and now I see exactly how it's meant to work. Great explanation! Thank you for that, DB.

[LSP552]

Much of this discussion like most things shooting, are situational and mission driven. A patrol officer's light usage techniques will be driven by different requirements than folks not working in that environment. There is a reason you are hearing the law enforcement preference towards Harries, modified FBI, or neck index. It just transitions better from searching to shooting than the Rogers, cigar, syringe, etc. It also allows seamless baton strikes when using a real light.

One other comment. There are few things more dangerous than looking for bad guys in dark places. Unless you are being paid to do so, or there is an immediate need to link up with a family member, I'd recommend leaving. Its much safer to hunt bad guys from a team environment with WMLs on everything.

Ken

[TheTrevor]

Fair points, Ken, 100% agree.

In my case, I like to have as many tools in the toolbox as possible. I'm thankful that hunting bad people in dangerous places is not in my current job description. Conversely, I'm aware that WMLs fail and even if I'm just checking on a barking dog, I'd like to know that I have proven-effective options for coaxial light+pistol on tap if the WML goes dark.

[LSP552]

In my case, I like to have as many tools in the toolbox as possible. I'm thankful that hunting bad people in dangerous places is not in my current job description. Conversely, I'm aware that WMLs fail and even if I'm just checking on a barking dog, I'd like to know that I have proven-effective options for coaxial light+pistol on tap if the WML goes dark.

We agree that everyone using a gun for defense should understand light options and PRACTICE them.

Ken

[Dagga Boy]

Sometimes with too many tools in the toolbox, you have a hard time picking which one in a crisis.

LSP552 is on the money. I also wonder about CHL holders wanting to run a WML for daily carry to "be able to find bad guys"....bad move, the idea in that world is to not be searching for them, its avoiding them. Now for home defense, I am a huge proponent and my bedside guns all have very powerful Surefire lights on them (and multiple handhelds within easy reach if I have to go mobil. In this case you want to bunker, light it, I.D. it, and eliminate it if lethal force is justified. And for God's sake if you do go outside to "check something out", BRING A FLASHLIGHT, especially if you take a gun (even if it has a WML on it). Using the gun as a flashlight outdoors is not a good tactic, and heaven forbide if what you find with your weapon mounted light that you are using for a flashlight is the local Police looking for a prowler, a police dog, your kid sneaking home, a neighbor who is also checking for a noise (or sneaking home), the power company worker trying to track down a problem, or any one of a number of things that should not be having a gun pointed at them.

[ToddG]

Much of this discussion like most things shooting, are situational and mission driven. A patrol officer's light usage techniques will be driven by different requirements than folks not working in that environment. There is a reason you are hearing the law enforcement preference towards Harries, modified FBI, or neck index. It just transitions better from searching to shooting than the Rogers, cigar, syringe, etc.

I'm not sure how that's different from a civilian who finds himself needing to PID then shoot. Which is why I think you're seeing more and more "CCW" type shooters -- and trainers -- leaning toward those same search-oriented techniques and fewer are doing the "shoot a little faster" stuff these days. I've got pretty short fingers so the Rogers technique just never really worked for me at all. But I do practice SHO shooting quite a bit so I tend to be as good or better shooting from a neck index as I am shooting from some compromised 2-hand-with-light grip on the gun.

[Dagga Boy]

I'm not sure how that's different from a civilian who finds himself needing to PID then shoot. Which is why I think you're seeing more and more "CCW" type shooters -- and trainers -- leaning toward those same search-oriented techniques and fewer are doing the "shoot a little faster" stuff these days. I've got pretty short fingers so the Rogers technique just never really worked for me at all. But I do practice SHO shooting quite a bit so I tend to be as good or better shooting from a neck index as I am shooting from some compromised 2-hand-with-light grip on the gun.

Where is Todd? Somebody is posting under his name. I want my nemesis back. First GJM and now this...........arrrggghhhhh.