Double Stacks and raccoon-sized hands

[BillSWPA]

Unfortunately I’ve already sold the G19. For reference, in my mind I am searching for an interaction with the trigger that’s more like this:


And less like this:


That’s what I mean by a 90* straight back trigger press. At least that’s what I’ve found works best for me to get a consistent trigger press when I shoot precision rifle. I am far behind most here when it comes to skill and practice with a pistol. So I may be going at this all wrong.


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If I understand you correctly, you are looking to line up the central axis of the barrel with the central axis of your forearm when viewed from the top? If so, this is what I prefer as well, and it does a good job of aligning the trigger finger for a straight back squeeze.

[Crews]

If I understand you correctly, you are looking to line up the central axis of the barrel with the central axis of your forearm when viewed from the top? If so, this is what I prefer as well, and it does a good job of aligning the trigger finger for a straight back squeeze.

What I’m asking about is having a grip depth/“length of pull” that is short enough to allow my trigger finger to have that standoff. I feel like that is what allows me to pull the trigger straight back with the least amount of lateral influence. I haven’t thought about it in terms of bore alignment to arm, but perhaps I should.


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[Clusterfrack]

Unfortunately I’ve already sold the G19. For reference, in my mind I am searching for an interaction with the trigger that’s more like this:
That’s what I mean by a 90* straight back trigger press. At least that’s what I’ve found works best for me to get a consistent trigger press when I shoot precision rifle. I am far behind most here when it comes to skill and practice with a pistol. So I may be going at this all wrong.

If you can't reach the trigger, that's a problem. I agree that your trigger should break when your 2nd finger joint is at 90 deg. However, where you press the trigger on your finger doesn't matter very much. I press in the middle of the pad on G19 and P07 size guns, but in the 1st joint on my LCR, LCP, and G43.

What does matter a lot is your grip, and I think that's more important. Some people gravitate toward small gripped guns like 1911s because they can wrap their hand around it fully. However, a modern thumbs forward grip works best with a larger grip. See my post, and look at how much of the left-side grip is exposed. My firing hand fingers don't wrap very far around the grip, which promotes fore-aft gripping with that hand.

What I’m asking about is having a grip depth/“length of pull” that is short enough to allow my trigger finger to have that standoff. I feel like that is what allows me to pull the trigger straight back with the least amount of lateral influence. I haven’t thought about it in terms of bore alignment to arm, but perhaps I should.

If you're trying to adjust your grip to align with your arm bones, this is probably the problem. You don't have to do that, and I certainly don't.

If you like Glocks, I'm confident you can fit a G48. I wouldn't switch brands just because of this concern. And, I'm still not convinced that a 19 is too big for you.

EDIT--ONE MORE THING: If you have a really tight, high grip where your web is pressed very hard against the underside of the beavertail, your hands are effectively larger. I've see people gain significant finger length by doing this. And the bonus is that you have a much better grip.

[JAD]

If you can't reach the trigger, that's a problem. I agree that your trigger should break when your 2nd finger joint is at 90 deg. However, where you press the trigger on your finger doesn't matter very much. I press in the middle of the pad on G19 and P07 size guns, but in the 1st joint on my LCR, LCP, and G43.

What does matter a lot is your grip, and I think that's more important. Some people gravitate toward small gripped guns like 1911s because they can wrap their hand around it fully. However, a modern thumbs forward grip works best with a larger grip. See my post, and look at how much of the left-side grip is exposed. My firing hand fingers don't wrap very far around the grip, which promotes fore-aft gripping with that hand.

If you like Glocks, I'm confident you can fit a G48. I wouldn't switch brands just because of this concern. However, I'm still not convinced that a 19 is too big for you.

What glove size do you wear, CF?

[Clusterfrack]

What glove size do you wear, CF?

Mechanix small or medium, depending on how tight I want them.

(Also--see some new edits in my post above.)

[cheby]

This is a copy of the post from one of the best shooters in the country on a similar topic from a different forum. I found this to be spot on through my experience:

"I have more than once expressed that I think obsession with ergos and fitting the hand “like a glove” is next to pointless and my comments have never been well-received, particularly among the casuals/ 500 rounds a year crowd...

Speaking generally, I think people select grips far smaller than is optimal.

To hazard a guess, they overemphasize the feeling they get from the being able to wrap their strong hand around the grip like it was a handshake. But that’s not really what happens in handgun shooting. The majority of recoil control and driving the gun comes from the support hand. So you need enough space on the support side panel to get as much meat on the gun as possible. That means larger grips.

I’m not sure a one-size-fits-all rule applies to grip since it’s a very individualized thing.

But let’s try this: Use the largest/longest grip you can that allows you to consistently press the trigger in such a way that your trigger finger is perpendicular to the frame at the break point of the trigger".

BTW, this is how you select a trigger shoe on 2011 guns.

[Tod-13]

Unfortunately I’ve already sold the G19. For reference, in my mind I am searching for an interaction with the trigger that’s more like this:


And less like this:


That’s what I mean by a 90* straight back trigger press. At least that’s what I’ve found works best for me to get a consistent trigger press when I shoot precision rifle. I am far behind most here when it comes to skill and practice with a pistol. So I may be going at this all wrong.


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For my wife to get her finger on the trigger, the part of your thumb that is to the left of the gun, ends up behind the gun for her.

[learnerpermitted]

I am in the same boat as you. Even the Gen4 is a little bit too big for my hands. If you want a Glock 19 size alternative, I recommend the M&P 2.0 line. You might even find the smallest grip option on that gun is too small for your hand. For me the medium back strap on the M&P 2.0 works for me. As you go on this personal journey finding the best grip, be aware that there is a thing as having a handgun grip that is too small in the hands. When the handgun grip is too small you may reduce effective coverage of your hands on to the hand gun grip and/or the grip may move/twist around your hands too much as you shot and maintaining sight alignment may be more difficult.

[pew_pew]

I came to a similar realization about a year or two ago for the same reasons but with the added requirement of being able to hold the pistol straight in line w/ my forearm. I read that somewhere at some point (holding a pistol to be inline w/ your arm) and was chasing something that ultimately didn't make a noticeable difference for me. I've given up on finding the perfect pistol for my small hands (I wear size small men's gloves for reference) based on those previous "requirements" and have found I can comfortably shoot alot of pistols out there pretty well. Unless you are seeing a noticeable detriment to your shooting due to a specific factor, don't get too caught up in chasing after the perfect fit for your hands.

If you're OK w/ aftermarket triggers, I've found some flat faced triggers on Glocks helped w/ trigger reach. An Agency Arms trigger on a Gen4/5 Glock 17/19/45 fits me pretty well. As do the Sig P320 X-Compact & Sig P365XL.

That actually is a very important aspect of being able to shoot fast, keep the gun in line with your forearm. Allows you to c-clamp the grip with your strong hand and apply front to back pressure. When you rotate your hand around the grip and create a u-clamp grip you can’t apply front to back pressure.

Worth a watch.

[JAD]

Mechanix small or medium, depending on how tight I want them.

(Also--see some new edits in my post above.)

Ok, samesies. When I hit the gun in the holster I want to be well indexed. For me, that means having the frame between the ends of my thumb and forefinger metacarpal heads. If I do that, once I draw the gun the barrel axis winds up parallel with my forearm, but that’s kind of less important to me. I want to know where the front sight is going to be before it comes to eye level, and indexing does that for me. It works just as well with a glock as it does a 1911 (to this point).

Then, once I’ve drawn the gun, I: 1) don’t want to move my hand and c] want to be able to press the trigger without disturbing the sights. I’ve put a lot of time and instruction in on Glocks and with a 19 I can’t do it, even very noticeably in dry fire. With a G4 17 I can.

That’s it, for me at least, and kind of sounds like what is going on with Crawls. Nothing so much about wrapping the hand, or ‘feels,’ or any other peripheral stuff — just the web of my hand and the pad of my finger needing to oppose each other.

Tom Givens is a big Glock guy, and will be the first to tell you that they aren’t for everybody.