If Groups No Longer Recognize the Legitimacy of the Law...

[GyroF-16]

This is stating the obvious, but I’ll say it anyway.
Law and order must be ENFORCED, or it isn’t a law, it’s a suggestion.
For instance, my (Democrat) state governor said yesterday that he didn’t want to pursue a state law requiring mask use during the pandemic “because I don’t think it will increase compliance.”
Now, leaving aside the debate over whether that SHOULD be done, his answer conveyed his liberal view of law enforcement - that people “aught” to follow the law, but a reluctance to ENFORCE the law.
This kinder, gentler attitude misses the point that laws are passed to COMPEL (or, more often FORBID) certain behavior. And they only work if they’re enforced. Otherwise there is no actual compelling or forbidding going on.

So in the case of @blues ‘s question, if law and order are ENFORCED by the authorities (police and courts), and the greater population is down with that, things work in a civilized society. If it’s not enforced, there is no law and order, and society breaks down.
There certainly seem to be pockets in the country lately where the latter approach is being tried.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

To add, I posted elsewhere that an overuse of force by governmental forces is provoked by some. The idea is to generate an outrage that will lead to more recruits and rebellion. The force isn't enough to 'crush' the opposition and thus just produces more.

It might not produce full scale revolt but could spark more terrorism. The Muir building comes to mind.

[HCountyGuy]

...and the sovereignty of the nation...can they be defeated via the courts and the rule of law, or does their (violent) resistance have to be met by greater force than they bring to bear?

Where is the tipping point?

Please discuss...

If such groups have decided that the laws or other rules are to be disregarded and they’ve resorted to violence as their primary means of communication, then I’d say show that you can speak their language better so to speak.

As for what is the tipping point, I can’t say I could describe it and I don’t think society yet has a consensus but I’m worried we’re reaching a point where we’re going to go over the edge. I can imagine it’ll likely happen if Trump wins re-election.

[blues]

I can imagine it’ll likely happen if Trump wins re-election.

I see problems on the horizon regardless of who wins. Trump wins and insurrection will continue to flare up...organized or not.

The Dems win, and should they win the majority in congress and put their "plan for America" forward, the insurrectionists may very well be the other side.

Either way...it looks like trouble ahead.

[HCountyGuy]

I see problems on the horizon regardless of who wins. Trump wins and insurrection will continue to flare up...organized or not.

The Dems win, and should they win the majority in congress and put their "plan for America" forward, the insurrectionists may very well be the other side.

Either way...it looks like trouble ahead.

Based on the reactions to Trump’s original election victory coupled with how things have gone so far this year, if he wins I believe there would be a renewed wave of highly violent riots protests. If the Dems win and get more power throughout Congress I imagine things may taper off some but will still be just below the boiling point.

ETA: Regardless of who wins, I don’t think America will...

[JodyH]

Touched on earlier but a worthy addition to the topic.

Leadership 101: "Never issue an order you know will not be obeyed."
It undermines your authority and in order to regain it you usually have to go to the extreme.

A lot of our current problems can be traced straight back to the "sanctuary city" movement.
When the people who write the laws tell the enforcers to ignore the law, it undermines every law ever written.
That's only accelerated since then with "give them room to destroy" and abandoning police stations, CHAZ/CHOP etc.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I see problems on the horizon regardless of who wins. Trump wins and insurrection will continue to flare up...organized or not.

The Dems win, and should they win the majority in congress and put their "plan for America" forward, the insurrectionists may very well be the other side.

Either way...it looks like trouble ahead.

You and I think exactly the same way. I think that a) we're already in a "cold" civil war right now and b) it doesn't matter who wins this Fall, we are quite likely moving towards a hot one. If the Left takes the government in November, they'll do a sweeping gun restriction bill or other oppressive legislation that will be the final straw.

[psalms144.1]

A perfect example is my little corner of paradise. In the last 10 days, we've had a huge increase in the number of Covid-19 cases, and our medical infrastructure can not support a major run on ICU beds. The county passed an ordnance REQUIRING the wear of masks in all public places effective 4th of July. On the 5th, we took our puppy to Jiffy Treat for his birthday bowl of ice cream, and there were at least 20 people sitting crowded around four picnic tables, none of them wearing masks. Two days later, there were 10-15 college age kids in Sam's stocking up on beer and cheetos - no masks. Most places I've gone since the ordnance was passed I've seen at least 25% non-conformance, but, there's no punishment for those who ignore it, so why wear that hot thing? Besides, "mah rahts," and "'Mericuh."

Don't get me wrong, I detested living in the nanny NE, but at a certain point people are doing things SPECIFICALLY because they were told not to. As my Russian friends would say "Diss iss prohblehm."

[Suvorov]

I see problems on the horizon regardless of who wins. Trump wins and insurrection will continue to flare up...organized or not.

The Dems win, and should they win the majority in congress and put their "plan for America" forward, the insurrectionists may very well be the other side.

Either way...it looks like trouble ahead.

That is how I see it. The Good Lord said “a house divided can not stand.” Lincoln repeated it. I honestly can’t think of a way to stop the train from going off into the ravine at this point. Frankly at this point I’m more about how to best prepare for the plunge.

I have a very good friend who moved to Russia several years ago for a multitude of reasons. When he left he told me that Russia already had its Communist revolution and people there are hardened towards deprivation - America hasn’t and Americans aren’t.

I hope he is wrong.

[ccmdfd]

Touched on earlier but a worthy addition to the topic.


A lot of our current problems can be traced straight back to the "sanctuary city" movement.
When the people who write the laws tell the enforcers to ignore the law, it undermines every law ever written.
That's only accelerated since then with "give them room to destroy" and abandoning police stations, CHAZ/CHOP etc.

Good points, I would add the whole way states have been handling Marijuana laws to the list, as well as the attempt by many to circumvent the electoral college.