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Thread: Black on Black Violence / Murder: Why Is it Taboo to Discuss? How Do We Fix it?

  1. #21
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    It's a long known fact that people tend to resent being told things by outsiders, especially if they are right.
    Likewise, people tolerate bad actions done by an in group far more than the same done by outsiders.
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
    "I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI

  2. #22
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    @peterb

    I wonder what percentage of the marijuana arrests you cited were for marijuana alone or where that charge was in addition to other criminal charges. (I don't know the answer which is why I ask.)

    I worked narcotics for many years, but never made a marijuana case as there was a 5,000 lb threshold in South FL to go federal, and it wasn't a priority. And the bulk of what we did was starting from international trafficking / shipments leading to controlled deliveries and dismantling domestic operations. Both on the drug as well as the money side.

    Many times, charges in connection with marijuana might be used as an adjunct to other charges, an enhancement, so to speak...or because it was what a case could be made on when there was other shifty business taking place with insufficient evidence to charge. Fortunately, the latter wasn't our way of doing things.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  3. #23
    Frequent DG Adventurer fatdog's Avatar
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    Sometimes I hate the idea of committing sociology but I will here.

    There is a strong persistent subculture within certain groups, not just a segment of the African American community, where the whole fighting over honor and dueling thing has long been the source of violence.

    I take several recent examples like the shooting we had last Friday in Birmingham at one of the malls, and the script of the violence was one group of individuals "disrespected" or taunted an individual, he produces a gun, the shootout happens.

    As I attempt to dig into the stories about black on black violence it often follows this paradigm, some slight, perceived insult, etc. between individuals who may also have had some rancor or perceived interpersonal conflict previously (possibly my gang vs yours).

    The rest of the black on black murder seems either regular domestic violence, which is not a racial thing, happens in all races and cultures, or it is purely a criminal transaction gone wrong (drugs) in the majority of the murder cases I read about.

    I will dismiss the drug dealer kills drug dealer over a rip off or deal gone bad as having no major racial component in itself. Because of economics there may be more black men in some geographies in the illegal drug dealing profession. But the all the murders the last decade within 10 miles of my farm have been white on white drug dealers, or simple white on white domestic violence. I think white, black, hispanic, oriental, all the folks who choose to engage in the drug trade are subject to gunfights and killing each other. Perhaps gang involvement concurrent with drug dealing increases the odds of violence.

    As for the "disrespect me" honor killing. That is not a racial thing broadly.

    Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr? Part of the toxic dueling and "protect my honor culture" of that time and society. Same thing.

    We had a terrible culture in this country in the 18th and early 19th century of dueling/killing over honor and perceived insults. That was in all levels of white society at the time.

    In AL there grew to be a subculture tradition of white middle and lower class people dueling with Bowie knives in the late 19th century, always over insults or perceived insults. It got so bad that our legislature outlawed the carrying of Bowie knives completely. (Yes, I can carry a concealed loaded pistol or even PDW on my person but it remains illegal in all circumstances for me to carry a Bowie knife still).

    The fruit of this subculture of meeting insults or perceived slights with violence is a whole lot more lethal now than it was when Burr and Hamilton fired their single shot flintlock pistols on each other. We have better weapons.

    The cultural mindset to meet insult with violence has strongly taken hold in a small sector of the African American population, mostly in the urban areas. I don't know why, but it is clearly there.

    I do not believe that the vast majority of African Americans buy into or relate to this fighting/dueling/honor subculture at all, but some of those who grow up in it, learn it as a way of life from family and peers will and do commit violence at prodigious rates.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    @peterb

    I wonder what percentage of the marijuana arrests you cited were for marijuana alone or where that charge was in addition to other criminal charges. (I don't know the answer which is why I ask.)
    I don't know. This appears to be a more detailed treatment of the issue, complete with references, but I haven't waded through it.
    https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/ac...juana-rel2.pdf

  5. #25
    Smoke Bomb / Ninja Vanish Chance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    This is like one of those "dirty little secret" topics that is clearly not a secret, and is a source of much pain to the Black community and the nation as a whole.
    I don't think it's taboo or a "dirty little secret", I think it's something most folks who aren't black only talk about when police brutality protests are on TV. Rallies, protest, activism, et cetera regarding black-on-black violence happen all the time, it just doesn't make the evening news because it's not interesting. So when most folks who aren't black see police brutality protests on TV and attempt to bring context to the situation with statistics, they get screamed down because that's not the point *right now*.

    We're aware of the statistics in our community because interpersonal violence is a theme here, but that's not the case for the overwhelming majority of people. I think the first step in helping to fix the problem is making it an issue that's consistently on people's radars, rather than something they only discuss when it's a headline.
    "Sapiens dicit: 'Ignoscere divinum est, sed noli pretium plenum pro pizza sero allata solvere.'" - Michelangelo

  6. #26
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chance View Post
    I don't think it's taboo or a "dirty little secret", I think it's something most folks who aren't black only talk about when police brutality protests are on TV. Rallies, protest, activism, et cetera regarding black-on-black violence happen all the time, it just doesn't make the evening news because it's not interesting. So when most folks who aren't black see police brutality protests on TV and attempt to bring context to the situation with statistics, they get screamed down because that's not the point *right now*.

    We're aware of the statistics in our community because interpersonal violence is a theme here, but that's not the case for the overwhelming majority of people. I think the first step in helping to fix the problem is making it an issue that's consistently on people's radars, rather than something they only discuss when it's a headline.
    I dunno. We live a few miles outside a nice small town, but it's been on my radar for years. Perhaps because I'm former LE and lived and worked in NYC and Miami.

    But it's been something that's been with us since longer than I can remember. Can't really speak to what the rest of America has on its mind.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  7. #27
    Retracted, not conducive to the overall topic at hand.
    Last edited by HCountyGuy; 07-07-2020 at 02:15 PM.
    “Conspiracy theories are just spoiler alerts these days.”

  8. #28
    Good topic, and I wish I could participate in this one. My department is firing anyone that posts anything on social media that attempts to have a meaningful discussion on race and crime. This isn't Facebook but I'm not going to take a chance. Looking forward to the comments.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    @peterb

    I wonder what percentage of the marijuana arrests you cited were for marijuana alone or where that charge was in addition to other criminal charges. (I don't know the answer which is why I ask.)

    I worked narcotics for many years, but never made a marijuana case as there was a 5,000 lb threshold in South FL to go federal, and it wasn't a priority. And the bulk of what we did was starting from international trafficking / shipments leading to controlled deliveries and dismantling domestic operations. Both on the drug as well as the money side.

    Many times, charges in connection with marijuana might be used as an adjunct to other charges, an enhancement, so to speak...or because it was what a case could be made on when there was other shifty business taking place with insufficient evidence to charge. Fortunately, the latter wasn't our way of doing things.
    I wondered the same thing...

    The question that popped into my mind was “so, if marijuana was legal, would those same numbers still have been arrested/imprisoned?”
    In other words, were they already in the criminal life, and got popped for marijuana possession, or was that their only criminal activity?
    Also- were those arrests for simple possession, or “with intent to distribute”? I don’t condone marijuana use or possession, but dealing is certainly an actual criminal act - so not as indicative of racially-focused enforcement, in my view.

  10. #30
    Site Supporter jandbj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    “Youth”

    Not a single person in those statistics is a youth. All are adults.

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