Black on Black Violence / Murder: Why Is it Taboo to Discuss? How Do We Fix it?

[ccmdfd]

Blaming others for your troubles is ingrained in human nature. It's easier. Otherwise, you have to own up to your problems and actually put work into figuring out how to fix them, then even more work to apply those fixes.

Furthermore, Blaming others is a good way for someone who is power hungry to achieve that power. Biggest case in point that I can think of, Hitler. By Blaming Jews and the West he solidified his position of power over the Germans.

So you've got a group of people that want to blame others, and another group which wants to blame others in order to exert control over the first group. Thus no one wants to look at the actual problem, and figure out how to fix it.

[blues]

Why do you make that assumption?

I make that assumption because I have never heard anyone claim that killing other Blacks was part of their DNA. But I'd love to hear your theory if you think it is.

in·dig·e·nous
/inˈdijənəs/

adjective
originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native.

[olstyn]

This truly is a difficult topic without easy answers. From my suburban white guy view, it *appears* that there are a lot of contributing factors (I'm sure there are more that I'm missing):

• Perverse economic incentives - social programs have created a scenario where unless you can get a job that is quite lucrative, it is (or at least, can appear to be) more lucrative to crank out kids and collect welfare.
• Single parent households/teen pregnancies - the number of "baby daddy" and "baby mama" situations didn't used to be, but over the last several decades, has become grossly higher for the black community than for any other race in the USA, and it's not clear to me why, but it very obviously does the kids no favors to have only one parent around, especially if that parent is either jobless/receiving welfare, engaged in criminal/gang life, or both.
• Poor economic starting points and the surrounding culture *do* limit opportunities - yes, some can work hard in school and "get out," but by all appearances, such efforts are looked on negatively by peers, and thus carry social stigma.
• Gang activity related to all of the above

I feel like a large portion of this could be mitigated, if not outright solved if nuclear families with at least one and preferably both parents gainfully employed/setting good examples for their kids could become more prevalent. This would likely also have a secondary effect of reducing the total number of interactions with police, which can only be a good thing. How to get there is beyond me, though - I think it would require shifts in culture *and* government programs in order to make it happen.

I could also just be talking out of my ass. This opinion is likely worth about what you paid for it.

[Totem Polar]

Clearly this is a complex issue that involves many layers including income, employment and economic opportunity, family structure, education, gang and criminal activity within the community, and a host of other variables...

First off, E-dog, I really appreciate you starting a discussion on this. Secondly, I think the quality of your lines of questioning shows that you have a pretty decent grasp on the grosser problem. Lastly, I’m not sure how we fix this. Part of the issue is that there are just enough and vocal enough minorities within the larger black community that don’t want to fix “the system;” I’m thinking of the wider/extended gang and activist communities here. While I don’t think the vast majority of even those fringe cultures like the excessive death toll, I do think that many accept it as part of the cost of keeping their thing going. And both the criminal and activist communities have enough clout to shape the larger zeitgeist. Add to that Mr and Mrs Black America that don’t think that change is possible under the current system, and we have a recipe for “everyone knows this is terminally fucked up, but what are ya gonna do? It’s the way it is.”

A word about that last sentence. I think I’ve noted in passing discussion here that I’m the product of a mixed marriage—my mother is half native and half black; this is how I #1, ended up being born in WA state (first shall-issue state, and the only one available in the mid 60’s), and #2, how I ended up being born into a self-defense culture. My mom’s side of the family was, if not immersed, at least involved in the activism of the late 50’s and 60’s. Hell, the term “institutional racism” was coined in a book written by my in-law uncle (the one from Columbia U, not the one from Trinidad). As a child, I regularly heard from an entire side of my family that while I may be fortunate to have white skin, I would always be held back by the color of my mother’s, and that there wasn’t anything that could change that. And this was the conversational tone in a relatively normal household—my grandfather was an honorable man who just wanted to work a job, raise a family, and retire in his own house. (As an aside, my dad would always provide the counterpoint that while race is a factor in life, hard work and simply being unwilling to quit can overcome most deficiencies. The main reason that I’m a reputable and employed professional musician is simply that everyone else in my peer circle quit at some point).

But I digress. The point I’m trying to make is that the open secret will continue as status quo until enough people actually believe that things can change. I am not talking about the elements that accept and perpetuate a culture of predatory violence as a cost of doing business—fuck those guys. I’m talking about a culture that still has a critical mass who feel that “it is what it is.” This includes both the black community, and larger America outside of it. The mindset of the raw deal—and, make no mistake, black America got a raw deal—is what holds us in stasis, even as other ethnic minority communities—Latino, southeast asian, pacific islander—do objectively better, despite having analogous economic and criminality issues, themselves.

It’s not even that the lightbulb has to want to change; enough of the bulb has to believe that change can actually happen within the system. Bluntly, we just aren’t there as a country.

[blues]

Really appreciate the responses so far. I think it is useful to view the entire broad range of opinions, not only as a sounding board for our own, but to see where we are in our perspectives as a microcosm of the larger society of which we are but a small subset.

[peterb]

I feel like a large portion of this could be mitigated, if not outright solved if nuclear families with at least one and preferably both parents gainfully employed/setting good examples for their kids could become more prevalent. This would likely also have a secondary effect of reducing the total number of interactions with police, which can only be a good thing. How to get there is beyond me, though - I think it would require shifts in culture *and* government programs in order to make it happen.

One of the unintended consequences of reduced housing discrimination is that families with the means for a better life leave the bad neighborhoods as soon as possible, taking away that role model and stability.

Marriage rates: If a significant percentage of the local male population is imprisoned, or has reduced employment prospects because of a criminal record, the prospects for a stable marriage are greatly decreased.
It's part of the "collateral damage" from the war on drugs.

[0ddl0t]

I make that assumption because I have never heard anyone claim that killing other Blacks was part of their DNA. But I'd love to hear your theory if you think it is.

Ah, I misinterpreted your intent due to the use of "culture" instead of "race" in "indigenous to the culture..."

[blues]

Ah, I misinterpreted your intent due to the use of "culture" instead of "race" in "indigenous to the culture..."

Thanks. I had a feeling there was some level of confusion there.

[Bio]

One of the unintended consequences of reduced housing discrimination is that families with the means for a better life leave the bad neighborhoods as soon as possible, taking away that role model and stability.

Marriage rates: If a significant percentage of the local male population is imprisoned, or has reduced employment prospects because of a criminal record, the prospects for a stable marriage are greatly decreased.
It's part of the "collateral damage" from the war on drugs.

I feel like this should be the number one response to any politician that wants to ramp up gun control laws.

1.) Did the War on Drugs work?
2.) Do you think drug enforcement was applied fairly between different racial populations?
3.) Do you think gun control measures will be any different?
4.) Do you think there's a more likely outcome of increased gun control than "more black men in prison"?

[peterb]

From what I've read in the past month, there's a belief in many Black communities that the drug war is perpetuated by whites to keep feeding blacks into the prison-for-profit industry. The see a steady stream of white customers coming into their neighborhood to buy drugs, they read about white kids and white adults doing drugs, and all they see are Black men going to jail.



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