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Thread: Individual Room Clearing at Gunsite Academy

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Totem Polar View Post
    I’d be more inclined to compress, myself, but I’m also no LAV. Credit where credit is due: folks should take his advice over mine on this all day long. But, I hear you.
    I get the guy was Delta like 20 years ago but how many times did he go into a house with bad guys, by himself, armed only with a pistol? Probably a ton of street cops with more experience at that than him.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Warped Mindless View Post
    I get the guy was Delta like 20 years ago but how many times did he go into a house with bad guys, by himself, armed only with a pistol? Probably a ton of street cops with more experience at that than him.
    That was one of the points made at the onset. HSLD team tactics are different from a lone homeowner doing it. I think they also made mention that they were going to go through the exercise as they would do with the beginner class vs the higher level classes.

    Kind of sort of makes sense there with the lower ready to clear field of view. How many beginners fixate on sights or the gun in anticipation of needing to make that quick shot and are then slow to see the problem.

  3. #13
    This Lone Homeowner would figure on letting the room clear itself.
    Stand well back prepared to shoot at a threat coming out. If said threat goes out a window, bye bye.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  4. #14
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
    This Lone Homeowner would figure on letting the room clear itself.
    Stand well back prepared to shoot at a threat coming out. If said threat goes out a window, bye bye.
    Generally speaking, it's not recommended for a homeowner to clear the house solo...absent circumstances requiring action such as children or elderly or invalids elsewhere in the home. If the homeowner is the only occupant, all the more reason to await LE and take up a position from which he or she can eliminate the threat if and when an approach is made on their location.

    Regardless of familiarity, there's a lot that can go wrong when you go to explore that bump in the night.

    Still, knowing how and what to do is another tool in your kit.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  5. #15
    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
    This Lone Homeowner would figure on letting the room clear itself.
    Stand well back prepared to shoot at a threat coming out. If said threat goes out a window, bye bye.
    I made this point repeatedly and emphatically to the great folks I had some time to talk with last week about firearms and tactics. Just the two of them in the house (BIG house with lots of doors and enter-able windows) - so there's NO reason for them to go looking for trouble. They were gracious enough to let me tour the house and suggest a few places they could use as planned "shelter" in case the alarm went off in the middle of the night, and reiterated they should go there, arm up, call 911, and wait for help.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
    This Lone Homeowner would figure on letting the room clear itself.
    Stand well back prepared to shoot at a threat coming out. If said threat goes out a window, bye bye.
    1000 plus to this. It’s one of the reasons why when looking at floor plans for homes/apartments I’ve always wanted bedrooms consolidated vs spread out for “privacy”. The last thing I need in the middle of the night is my son and MIL spread out across the place necessitating large movement. Doesn’t always work out, but if you have the option...

  7. #17
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    - I like that Walt reminded Larry about keeping the muzzle down in a correct low ready. There are both legal & practical reasons for not having the firearm that high up. You've got to be able to see "parts" because that's what you are looking for & they can be easily missed with the muzzle higher up. Additionally, there are agencies treating the pointing of a firearm at a person as a use of force - if the muzzle isn't crossing their body it makes life easier. @SoCalDep mentioned putting ready positions on the timer, others have gotten similar results with the benefit of being able to see & process more beforehand;

    - muzzle location when opening doors. Larry had it up above his weak hand when running the house dry. I'd have preferred it stayed there when he ran the house live, saw it drop down & cross the arm more than once;

    - The tac reload, yeah, would have liked to see that one sooner. It's interesting with the students in terms of ammo management & their perceptions during their first few simulator runs. Hey, wait, [sarcasm] I thought no one did tac reloads anymore? [/sarcasm];

    Gunsite's simulators aren't run as "do this" in terms of entering and clearing a multi-room structure by yourself being the best practice. It is done to let them work those problems together in a way they can't on the square range. I've heard the people who've gone through the shoot-house up at Alliance, OH use the phrase "thinking with a gun in your hand." That's very much what it is.
    More than a few students finish their first run or two and comment on not wanting to have to do that for real.
    One may need those skills and the mental video of that experience to get them out of a structure - for that, I think it's invaluable. In at least one class, all of the indoor simulator/shoot house runs were done from the inside out, as escapes.
    Someone mentioned getting to the kids' rooms. Having been able to clear parts of a house may be very relevant to that task.

  8. #18
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    One may need those skills and the mental video of that experience to get them out of a structure - for that, I think it's invaluable. In at least one class, all of the indoor simulator/shoot house runs were done from the inside out, as escapes...
    In addition to your other great points, this is the main reason the topic interests me.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDep View Post
    I’ve actually put many ready positions on a timer across many people trying to disprove that low ready is faster.

    Short answer... I proved myself wrong. Low ready is measurably faster than a compressed ready position (we didn’t do or teach high ready at the time) and I am impressed that Gunsite advocates exactly what my department teaches (if you can see it you can solve it, so keep the gun in a position to see what needs to be seen).

    I thought it was a good video with very well thought out points.
    It is said that the compressed ready has advantages in regards to weapons retention. It's not always about the timer. (Did I just break my rule to not discuss tactics on the internet?)

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Warped Mindless View Post
    I get the guy was Delta like 20 years ago but how many times did he go into a house with bad guys, by himself, armed only with a pistol? Probably a ton of street cops with more experience at that than him.

    Experience doesn't always mean expertise. There was a time when a part-time SWAT team would have had more 'experience' in room entry than SFOD-D (pre GWOT), but they didn't train more than SFOD-D, or train to a higher standard than SFOD-D. Street cops go into a lot of houses but that doesn't mean they do it correctly.

    (I'm not even a LAV nuthugger. I find him pompous. But I needed to point that out.)
    Last edited by BigD; 07-07-2020 at 12:00 PM.

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